Need help with Tipro

[Icarium]

i only keep this in mind until tonight:
"I'm not an expert ...."

By all means keep that in mind forever. Should I ever become an expert on keyboards ripster will let you know.

no diodes no *KRO is not true, proof that also...
See my post, i already proof the opposite

Your post doesn't proof that because 2KRO means that there exist 3 keys you cannot push together not that no 3 keys can be pushed together.

still open:
your Model
your connection

I'll look it up tonight when I make the video. I can't tell you off-hand. It's a 16x8 matrix board.

[CeeSA]

i showed my combination of keys, for yours i wait for the video?!
after that i will proof it.

my keys are an example, as is say i have no 2KRO for any combinations i ever use on a tipro.

Your generelly warning for 2KRO for Tipros is not true. That is my point.

[Soarer]

I'm not even sure what's being argued here!

Essentially, unless a board is NKRO (or 6KRO or more over USB) there will be some 3 key combinations that fail. Hence, it's called 2KRO - all 2 key combinations work. That doesn't mean that all 3 key combinations fail, far from it.

[CeeSA]

@ Soarer
your post is fine, but i don't get your point. i understand the 2KRO thing. as i stated i didn't know any 3 key combi that does not work.

again my point is, that i think the Tipro Boards are not 2KRO. To proof me wrong, we need the 3 key combination that should fail. We will check the video later for that (maybe my understanding of the perfect board will be ruined)

BTW Realforce Boards have no diodes and 6KRO

I forgot one thing about the first post Icarium, what is the problem w/ programming layers?
i use more or less 3 layers...

[kbdfr]

[...]To proof me wrong, we need the 3 key combination that should fail. [...]

On my Tipro (MID series), S+T+R fails.
Or at least the keyboard beeps (this happens when I'm typing fast, and I just tried pushing the 3 keys simultaneously).
As all characters are printed correctly when I type, I just don't mind.

[CeeSA]

omg, the same here. can't belief it. The keyboard fails w/ "s t r" combination.
I always belief that the Tipro controller could handle more than 2KRO.

Wondering i never noted this before in gaming or typing.....

So i need no video, my heart is already broken.

You are right Icarium...

[Soarer]

@ Soarer
your post is fine, but i don't get your point. i understand the 2KRO thing. as i stated i didn't know any 3 key combi that does not work.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, was I!

I only meant that I couldn't decipher exactly what you two were disagreeing over, so I gave a quick summary of 2KRO in case it helped

[Tarkoon]

If someone is interested, I am going to give away two of these boards.

Someone here in the forum was so nice to tell me, that I stepped into a 'translation trap'!
I translated the german phrase "etwas weggeben" with the english phrase "to give something away". (even dict.cc does)
For every native german speaker it should be easy to see why I used this english phrase - it matches perfectly if I translate it word by word, BUT as I know now, this english phrase can convey the meaning of "for free / as a gift" what the german phrase does not...
Do native english speakers understand "to give something away" as "giving something for free"?
I'm really interested in that and I'm realy sorry, if that caused misunderstandings!!!

[Soarer]

Generally, yes - give implies gift.

We might say something like "I'm going to let two of these boards go", which would usually mean for sale, but not always. That's the closest (semantic) translation I can think of right now, but there are probably a few similar phrases!

[off]

or 'giving up', 'throwing out FOR/TO sale', 'throwing up for grabs'
Basically just put 'for sale' or 'not for free' to make sure

[Soarer]

'to offer [up]' is another vague one... might mean offer to sell, or offer to give. Perhaps that's better for the literal translation of weggeben in that sense - "I'm going to offer up two of these boards", although it's not such a commonly used expression.

[Tarkoon]

As not native speaker I fear it's just a question of time until I step into such a trap again... but for sure not again into this one! ^^
As long as the responses to my posts are more than a row of question marks I'm satisfied, but I'll give my very best and work on my english.

[off]

Doing good so far!
Now where's those free boards at? As penance ofcourse.

[woody]

BTW Realforce Boards have no diodes and 6KRO

Just some Japanese gimmick, you can safely ignore it.

[7bit]

...
Your post doesn't proof that because 2KRO means that there exist 3 keys you cannot push together not that no 3 keys can be pushed together.
...

You can push all 122 key at once. No problem of doing that. Also, it gives some nice beeping ...

[7bit]

@ Soarer
your post is fine, but i don't get your point. i understand the 2KRO thing. as i stated i didn't know any 3 key combi that does not work.

again my point is, that i think the Tipro Boards are not 2KRO. To proof me wrong, we need the 3 key combination that should fail. We will check the video later for that (maybe my understanding of the perfect board will be ruined)
...

Try Caps Lock+Shift+Any key. It beeps perfectly!
And don't tel me that the Caps Lock position does not count!

...
Someone here in the forum was so nice to tell me, that I stepped into a 'translation trap'!
I translated the german phrase "etwas weggeben" with the english phrase "to give something away".

Must be a local thing. Something 'weggeben' means to me to give it away (for free).

Now, let me have it!

[Tarkoon]

Nice try!

[RC-1140]

btw. did you try to program it using RS232, or will you at least give us an update if you will?

And would you or anybody else volunteer to check the pinout of the RS232 cable? It should be easy with a Multimeter, take a piece of wire, and insert it into the various holes of the RS232 connector. Then simply try all the Pins at the 8 pin Mini DIN plug. I want to build my own cable!

[Tarkoon]

I ordered an USB to RS232 adapter online. When it's here I will try it.
And I'll ask my neighbor for a multimeter too!

[Tarkoon]

Ok, the converter arrived and programming is no problem any more with Win7 64bit! =)
I use the USB to RS232 converter and a USB to PS/2 converter.
Plug&Play works perfect!!! =)

[Tarkoon]

Ok, I have still some problems.
When I use Auto-Detect - is it normal, that ChangeMe always shows the standard configuration and not what I uploaded and verified last time?
The keyboard works like I programmed it, but after the Auto-Detect it shows the old configuration...

[off]

Ok, the converter arrived and programming is no problem any more with Win7 64bit! =)
I use the USB to RS232 converter and a USB to PS/2 converter.
Plug&Play works perfect!!! =)

sweeeeeet!

and on the other q, it shows the older/default config, but does it also work like that from then on? Or does it still use your settings, just not showing up? (the tipro thread will have people that know all about changeme i think)

[Tarkoon]

It still uses my setting, but shows the old ones...
And I found out, that the programming doesn't work on the 4x8 part up to now... Still searching the reason...
Which Tipro thread do you mean?

[off]

Only now noticed it wasn't referenced here before!
HERE, good stuff. Though probably you have seen it
Still wondering about multimediakeys and the versioning, will ask there.
*in that thread 7bit actually disconnected the controller inside his 32key pad so the controller of the fullsize takes over; maybe that will work?

[Tarkoon]

That's the INFO data about the keyboard... the TM-KMX-032A shows as ??.??.??

03.02.03 (06) : Controller module
-----------------------------------------
02.01.06 (03) : TM-RCA (Track 1+2+3)
92.01.08 (FE) : TM-KMQ-128A
??.??.?? (9F) : TM-KMX-032A

[Tarkoon]

The 4x8 has no own controller, it is just attached to the bus with this small cable...
Some keys do result in a key stroke, but I can't change anything...

[kbdfr]

Ok, I have still some problems.
When I use Auto-Detect - is it normal, that ChangeMe always shows the standard configuration and not what I uploaded and verified last time?
The keyboard works like I programmed it, but after the Auto-Detect it shows the old configuration...

Yes, it is normal.
If you want to upload your keyboard configuration into ChangeMe, first type Ctrl+Backspace and the menu will be expanded. Now the option Keyboard > Upload content from keyboard is active.
Note that key labelling will not be uploaded, though. The best way is still to Load your actual configuration.

Remember Tipros are point-of-sale keyboards. Not everybody should be able to know what is programmed on which key they may not have access to.

[kbdfr]

The 4x8 has no own controller, it is just attached to the bus with this small cable...
Some keys do result in a key stroke, but I can't change anything...

If the Tipro bus cable is attached correctly on both units, it should work.
Does the small unit appear in the configuration when using Auto Detect?
If yes, then ChangeMe "knows" it is there and you should be able to program it.

[Tarkoon]

When I use autodetect it finds the 4x8, but it shows no configuration and I can't programm it...
It finds the components as I copied it from the INFO data.

[kbdfr]

Try this: Desktop > Delete module (select 4x8 and confirm deleting)
Then Desktop > Add module (select the exact type, i.e. TM-KMX-032A, and confirm adding)
Now try again if programming is possible.