Thoughts on SMK 2nd gen switches?

[LambdaCore]

Snagged a decent deal for a keyboard, looked to have SMK 2nd gen switches in them, how do you guys feel about these? They haven't shipped yet, so I'm fairly excited to add a new switch to my collection.

[Muirium]

Montereys are nice. Quite like my little board of them. Which mount type have you got?

[xxhellfirexx]

They are decent switches. The weighting is a little stiffer and more tactile than blue Alps. Best to get one of those Laser branded keyboards so you can at least have nice key tops.

[doomsday_device]

among my fav discrete clicky switches, i prefer smk clicky all day over any alps clicky switch.

[oofers]

Using them right now! They're nice, but I've yet to try SKCM Alps.

[LambdaCore]

Montereys are nice. Quite like my little board of them. Which mount type have you got?

Ah, exciting! Mine is a Laser board with cherry MX mount

They are decent switches. The weighting is a little stiffer and more tactile than blue Alps. Best to get one of those Laser branded keyboards so you can at least have nice key tops.

Consider myself lucky then, I'm really excited then. I wonder how it'll compare to BS, White Alps and Matias Clicky switches

[Reimu64]

The “Monterey” clicky Alps mount switch is very nice. I consider it to be one of the better clicky switches out there. A little stiffer than Blue Alps, but still smooth.

However, I can’t say the same about the inverse mount tactile switch. The ones in my board are quite scratchy, and they weren’t as tactile as I hoped. It’s not the worst, but it’s below average for my taste.

[LambdaCore]

Ah, have you tried the MX mount Monterey switch? If not, I'd love to keep you updated on their feel relative to my other switches.

[Muirium]

Only little SMKs* I know (like most people I think) are those sweet azure blue proudly clicky Montereys. Alps mount only.

So yeah, you share your findings!

*The inestimable Beardsmore sent me a small selection of big, new old stock “first gen” SMKs, which I have in my switch sampler; though I’ve never had a board. They’re big and linear, or latching. Fairly smooth, but much too big, as was the style of the time.

[LambdaCore]

For sure! I just found Chyros' video on it, seems like that sky rocketed the board's price though! Well, not exactly, the one I got has the plus nav which according to a post on Geekhack is significantly better built, although I do prefer the regular t nav, that's not a deal breaker for me. Seems like a really good board from both accounts, high praise! Glad I got it for a decent price, especially since these seem to be super scarce now!

[hellothere]

I've had maybe a half-dozen keyboards with the blue switches with Alps mount. I finally dissected one of the switches just a couple days ago. Not many parts, but really, really small parts.

The reason for opening the switch is to see if I can fix off-center binding.

I think that most or all of the keyboards I've had are different models of Chicony. I think all have had laser-etched or pad-printed key caps.

LC, I've heard that the Laser ones that have the "plus" navigation cluster are supposed to be better, too. I'd like to know how or why, though.

[LambdaCore]

Unfortunately I won't be able to be much help from first hand experience, since I doubt I'd be able to even find another Laser board with the T nav at a decent price, I suppose I got insanely lucky with the find I did get. What I can do, though, is confirm whether or not I think the build quality is utter garbage or just alright, as the Geekhack thread I sent previously suggested to give a better idea.

These laser boards seem to be fairly rare these days, and there's little documentation it seems, and while there's a little more on the switches themselves, usually it's the Alps mount and not the MX mount, and while I don't have the Alps mount myself to compare I do have a decent range of other clicky switches to compare it to.

[hellothere]

Something was bothering me about this thread. I watched a couple of Chyros' videos and did some mild Googling, I was able to confirm: the Laser keyboards were available with either Futaba MA MX mount and SMK 2nd gen MX mount.

* SMK
* Futaba MA

Pretty darn simular.

I like Futaba MA, but they feel very different from SMK 2nd gen.

[joebeazelman]

Interesting. Chryosan's video agrees with my impression of the SMK 2nd Gen Monterey blues. I find them to be the as light or lighter than the SKCM orange, but they're definitely more tactile. They're a joy to type on and definitely on my rack of keyboards I rotate through.

[AidanBd]

They're really good in my opinion. The tactiles are a little bit scratchy, but they make a nice sound and overall have a nice sharp tactility. I like them. The clickies of course are a classic. I have 2 boards with the MX Mount and an Alps Mount board on the way. Very smooth, with a tiny bit of pronounced tactility on the upstroke (accompanied by a second click). In most boards they'll be fairly high pitched, but it is definitely chassis dependent. I have 2 VTCL/Laser boards, one is Leading Technology Brand and the other is VTech brand. Both are decently well built I suppose, but the VTech has a plastic mounting plate and a straight ANSI layout while the Leading Technology board doesn't have a mounting plate at all, and comes with a Monterey layout and a plus nav.

Because of the lack of mounting plate, the Leading Technology board has a monstrously bassy tone, being in a huge hollow case made of thick plastic. It's pretty fun to listen to, and the massive tone from the chassis drowns out any stabilizer rattle, so the spacebar sounds exceedingly thocky. Overall this particular board is probably my 3rd best sounding board, behind my Blue Alps boards.

In summary, haven't tried the linears, the tactiles are a bit divisive, not everybody's cup of tea, and the clickies are a joy. I would say they're tied with Alps SKCP Plate Spring for me, so better than membrane buckling springs and Pine White Alps, but not as good as Blue Alps.

[ollir]

I have Monterey K108 with alps mount SMKs and VTech branded board with MX mount SMKs. The one feature the K108 doesn't have is build quality, but it sounds better than the VTech (The Vtech isn't a tank either, but at least it doesn't feel completely like a cardboard box). But the VTech isn't terribly bad sounding board either. The switches feel very nice in both of these boards. More "in your face" flavored experience than clicky Alps, but not in a bad way. I think you can't really go wrong with clicky SMKs - given they are in nice condition with no notable binding etc.

[LambdaCore]

The keyboard is arriving on Saturday (or so USPS says) so I'll be able to report back soon!

[OverTheAlps]

Would a K108 with SMK worth more than a K108 with SKCM white? Trying to see if I should pay more for a SMK on eBay or not.

[Muirium]

I wouldn't say so, on moral grounds! But I do not follow the market. I just suspect Alps switches cost more for the original manufacturer, which is why there were "clones" in the first place.

[LambdaCore]

My Laser Keyboard has arrived! I haven't used the keyboard long so I don't feel comfortable giving a verdict just yet, I'm actually using it to type this out, but so far it's pretty cool! It's got decent rollover, so I can't imagine that being an issue, and the switches feel great even if I suspect mine aren't in optimal condition considering I had to scrub ESC, J and F10 to get them to register properly, the spacebar especially feels really nice, not rattly at all, the switches themselves aren't scratchy at all though definitely not as smooth as pine white alps not that you'd notice given the bottom out is insanely fast compared to alps, I suspect my FK-2001 might be pretty difficult to come back to once I get used to the weighting here... The keycaps are fairly thick and are MX mount, though they're smooth which I admittedly don't like as much as my Focus keycaps.]
'

Slight unfortunate update: some enter problems required me to open it up, and uh. I have no clue how to put the wire stablizers back together lol

Final edit: Nothing was broken! Was merely an issue with my converter, everything works flawlessly, I also figured out how to put in the wire stabilizers, though I lost some of the pieces to the right shift in the process, I also never use the right shift so that is not remotely a big deal to me lol

[Muirium]

You never touch right Shift? Space Invaders were made for you! Those 2.75u Shifts are their Achilles heel! They’re always wobbly, as the stabs are too small.

[LambdaCore]

Oh? Does it use a regular left shift, cause if so I know what my next keyboard will be! I've just fallen in love with trying different switches out.

[Muirium]

Left Shift is smaller (on regular ANSI and especially ISO layouts; HHKB is a notable exception) so stabilisation flaws aren’t as exposed. My best and original Space Invader is ISO, so left Shift is simply a 1.25u key with no stabiliser at all.



One keyboard of mine I am glad happens to be ISO.

Not that this Space Invaders talk is so relevant to your SMK though! Go find that stabiliser and fix it proper. Wobbly keys make me wince, even at an internet’s distance!

[LambdaCore]

Way ahead of you! Big ass enter is still giving me issues but I always press it as if it were a regular enter as is so it's not a bother. Everything is working great, I love the switches so far! I wanna compare and contrast with White Alps in particular since I think I might prefer the feel of this switch ever so slightly.

As for the Space invader board, that might work out well for me so long as the backspace isn't super bad, I've never used a one unit shift, but I suspect it'd be easy to get used to.

[Palatino]

Like you, I always use left shift and never right, and I also love SMK 2nd Gen and Space Invaders. I’d better PM you with my other preferences as we’re clearly kindred typists! The one unit backspace has been no problem for me on the Space Invader board as the switch is so good. It’s been an issue on other boards where binding occurs on off-centre presses, but SIs are super stable.

[SK-8K]

There used to be large amounts of NOS SMK switches on TaoBao, but they all seem to be gone now, except for the inverse mount version. I bought some to repair my Leading Technology board.

How does BOX pink compare to them in terms of tactility?

[LambdaCore]

Like you, I always use left shift and never right, and I also love SMK 2nd Gen and Space Invaders. I’d better PM you with my other preferences as we’re clearly kindred typists! The one unit backspace has been no problem for me on the Space Invader board as the switch is so good. It’s been an issue on other boards where binding occurs on off-centre presses, but SIs are super stable.

Oh, I'd love that! Feel free, I'll be sure to share some of my other favorites as well. Oh, and while I'm at it, since I'm using the MX mount SMK, any particular keycap sets you'd be interested in seeing on this board? Any you'd recommend, sound wise, as well?

[LambdaCore]

So after a full day using clicky 2nd gen SMK switches, I have to say while the sound isn't nearly as good as even a Matias board, the feeling is so good it tops just about any other switch I've used! Not even SKCM White Alps or Buckling Springs top it for me, contrasting between all three boards as we speak and... yeah, It might just be the excitement of a new keyboard, but this thing is just so damn comfortable, the lighter weighting makes it actively difficult to go back to alps switches and the smooth feel and tactile bump makes going to MX Blues feel like I'm sticking my hand in a box of lego, using MX Reds and Flaretechs I have lying around almost feel like going back to rubber domes by comparison.

The board itself is... eh, though. The keycaps aren't bad, and the switches are MX mount so aside from finding a big ass enter, finding compatible keycaps shouldn't be difficult, a friend of mine recently loaned a cheap set of PBTs to try so after I wake up I'll give you an update on that, not that they'll beat out these decently thick double shots. As for build quality, it's pretty cheap, just comparing to the Unicomp Model M, it's pretty light and I feel like I could snap it in two if I really wanted to, the switches are another story though as they feel great even after getting caked in dust I had to clean out, I'm sure they'd feel even better NOS. It also looks pretty easy to open up, I figure if I ever do any DIY projects, I might dye the case black and find a set of decent keycaps to suit it as I feel that would look pretty kick ass.

[Muirium]

Ah, it's reassuring to see just how comprehensively we're *ruining* you, on multiple fronts!

I actually quite like their sound. Sound is heavily influenced by caps and chassis, it's a property of a keyboard as much as of its switches. So if you like thick ABS, as many do, you'll want those on your SMKs. Or if you're used to beefier chassis, um, well, then I've bad news.

You're right about the feeling. Montereys are what I have in mind the few times I've tried switch samplers of Box Jades and Navies and the like. (Never bothered with a full keyboard of these, just minutes with other people's switch samplers.) Montereys are light and snappy: the ideal mix for many of us. The MX clones are getting better at addressing more keyfeel varieties than MX itself ever did, but I'm unconvinced they've got Montereys matched yet. If and when they do, of course, all the other things like chassis will be in their favour.

[LambdaCore]

Yeah, those gifted keycaps came in, cheaper PBT, I noticed the sound get a bit quieter, also a bit bassier as well. I might keep these on, they look really tacky but they feel a bit nicer than the ultra smooth keycaps it came with... still unsure if that's how it's supposed to feel or a problem of wear 'n tear. I wanted to go for SA keycaps, but I decided against dropping my money on more than the price of the keyboard itself on keycaps! As for the chassis, I actually suspect that's where a lot of the noise is coming from pure volume wise but I don't exactly view that as an issue, it's got a pretty refined click and while it's sound isn't Alps good it IS still better than any MX type switch I've used including the well regarded box switches I've tried, with the new keycaps it's still clicky, but it's a deeper click than say... a unicomp model M or white alps.