F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[RedESC]

Will we be sent tracking when f122s ship? I ask as I'm about to go on holiday.

[Ordinary Witch]

you do get tracking for international orders at least, though apparently asendia is a bit bad with their tracking. mine has been sitting as "shipment information received" since last wednesday

[tinydarkness]

Will we be sent tracking when f122s ship? I ask as I'm about to go on holiday.

I got a tracking number.

[tinydarkness]

you do get tracking for international orders at least, though apparently asendia is a bit bad with their tracking. mine has been sitting as "shipment information received" since last wednesday

Mine went from "shipping information received" to "out for delivery" in like 48 hours. It was crazy how fast it arrived.

[Ellipse]

Important F122 Leyden Jar firmware update to fix phantom key press issue for some keyboards, and other replies:

Nice customization tinydarkness! I like the use of Industrial SSK and terminal keys.

Confirmed, tracking emails are sent as soon as I have the tracking information.

Wow that is fast! Usually they are not that fast!

With permission I am sharing another nice customized F122.

Mopar Blue set F122 - Copy.jpeg (3.97 MiB) Viewed 7854 times

When you have a moment, everyone please test the updated F122 firmware and let me know if there are any issues.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... _05_10.zip

Rico is working on a new firmware update that will fix a few other small requests too, but I recommend updating to the above firmware if you have any issues with the debounce/with phantom key presses. The above link will no longer work and the file will be deleted after the update is made and added to the regular QMK-layout-files.zip file in the manual, where the various firmware files are all located.

The debounce was not working at all on the original firmware because the debounce time in was set too low for the higher number of bins used in the default firmware (more bins requires a few thousandths of a second more debounce time). More details are below if you are interested.


You have to manually set the debounce time as it is a constant. Setting this time too low results in debounce not running at all, so a setting of 10 ms is recommended as an initial test. Rico notes "What needs to be done for the F122 keyboard is to increase debouncing time so that it is higher than the matrix scan time + additional qmk logic. Total latency is approximately max(debounce_time, matrix_scanning_time) + qmk logic. This means that if the matrix scanning takes more time than the debounce time, no debouncing will be done. With 6 bins we have ~4.3ms scanning time, this is not a huge number. Sure QMK USB polling rate take an additional 1ms and debouncing takes 5ms on top of that, we still end at ~10ms latency which is more than adequate for normal typing sessions and casual gaming (below this value only the very best players can see the difference, and they are more probably inclined to use a hall effect gaming keyboard). To reduce latencies maybe it would be easier to reduce the debouncing values (and check that it does not introduce double press issues), or even better select another debouncing algorithm (there is one that introduces no delay when detecting key presses, only one when detecting key releases). To change the debounce time, the following line has to be added in the info.json file of the f122 board:"
"debounce": 10

The only downside to longer debounce times is a couple thousandths of a second additional input delay. Many mechanical keyboards are about 10ms anyways, about the same as Leyden Jar-powered keyboards.

[tinydarkness]

Important F122 Leyden Jar firmware update to fix phantom key press issue for some keyboards, and other replies:

Nice customization tinydarkness! I like the use of Industrial SSK and terminal keys.

Confirmed, tracking emails are sent as soon as I have the tracking information.

Wow that is fast! Usually they are not that fast!

With permission I am sharing another nice customized F122.

Mopar Blue set F122 - Copy.jpeg



When you have a moment, everyone please test the updated F122 firmware and let me know if there are any issues.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... _05_10.zip

Rico is working on a new firmware update that will fix a few other small requests too, but I recommend updating to the above firmware if you have any issues with the debounce/with phantom key presses. The above link will no longer work and the file will be deleted after the update is made and added to the regular QMK-layout-files.zip file in the manual, where the various firmware files are all located.

The debounce was not working at all on the original firmware because the debounce time in was set too low for the higher number of bins used in the default firmware (more bins requires a few thousandths of a second more debounce time). More details are below if you are interested.


You have to manually set the debounce time as it is a constant. Setting this time too low results in debounce not running at all, so a setting of 10 ms is recommended as an initial test. Rico notes "What needs to be done for the F122 keyboard is to increase debouncing time so that it is higher than the matrix scan time + additional qmk logic. Total latency is approximately max(debounce_time, matrix_scanning_time) + qmk logic. This means that if the matrix scanning takes more time than the debounce time, no debouncing will be done. With 6 bins we have ~4.3ms scanning time, this is not a huge number. Sure QMK USB polling rate take an additional 1ms and debouncing takes 5ms on top of that, we still end at ~10ms latency which is more than adequate for normal typing sessions and casual gaming (below this value only the very best players can see the difference, and they are more probably inclined to use a hall effect gaming keyboard). To reduce latencies maybe it would be easier to reduce the debouncing values (and check that it does not introduce double press issues), or even better select another debouncing algorithm (there is one that introduces no delay when detecting key presses, only one when detecting key releases). To change the debounce time, the following line has to be added in the info.json file of the f122 board:"
"debounce": 10

The only downside to longer debounce times is a couple thousandths of a second additional input delay. Many mechanical keyboards are about 10ms anyways, about the same as Leyden Jar-powered keyboards.

I flashed the new firmware and have continued using the keyboard as normal. No issues with anything firmware related that I can see thus far.

[acfrazier]

Got mine today and set it up/flashed the updated firmware. This was worth the 2 year wait, imo. So far, no issues.

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[tinydarkness]

Got mine today and set it up/flashed the updated firmware. This was worth the 2 year wait, imo. So far, no issues.
image.jpg

How did you get the terminal keys in blue?

[acfrazier]

How did you get the terminal keys in blue?

I ordered them 2 years ago from Ellipse, and they’ve been sitting here waiting for the board to arrive.

[Iggy]

Hey there, old member here who's about to order an F122. Wild question here for Ellipse: ISO enter possible with ANSI lay-out? That's what my current (modded) F122 has, and it's kinda addicting. Hardly a bother if it's impossible, just wondering.

[Ellipse]

tinydarkness the keys are available in pearl/pebble, Dark Gray, and Blue.

Iggy yes, with the layout customization check mark - you can note you want a shorter spacebar, regular spacebar, short left shift, full size left shift, ISO Enter, etc. Also don't forget to order the additional needed keys that are not part of the ANSI set (ISO Enter key, 1U | \, short left shift, etc.).

[Iggy]

Thanks for your reply! I meant an ANSI lay-out with just the ISO enter key, like on my current F112 (see photo attachment). That's the perfect lay-out for me.I guess I need to use the layout customization mark and noting that I'd like an ISO enter included. I'll order a bunch of extra keys as well.

[Ellipse]

Yes, just order the keys not included in the US ANSI key set from the Extra Keys page and order the $39 layout customization if you want me to take care of it. Note ISO Enter, 2.25U left shift.

[Iggy]

Sweet, I think I can better PM you to prevent any more stupid questions in this thread.

[Ellipse]

The Leyden Jar firmware has just been updated (same link as my earlier post). Please let me know if there are any issues!

New updates from Rico:
The NKRO option works once more (click Fn+Space+N to enable as it is disabled by default for compatibility reasons)
2nd and 3rd layer shortcuts and mappings for Fn and menu keys now match the xwhatsit Model F firmware shortcuts (see the project website manual for details)

Important note: while in the xwhatsit NathanA firmware you can split and unsplit keys in Vial, for the Leyden Jar firmware you would have to flash the generic firmware for your keyboard (for example, leyden_jar_f122_vial.uf2) to enable additional pads. This firmware is useful for using the shorter spacebar and for using the 5 keys above the cursor keys for those who are adding barrels, flippers, and keys to those spots.

[F77E39]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my experience with the Model F Labs F77, which I received less than a year ago. Typing feel has been great, one of my favourite boards overall.

However, two issues have emerged that I believe are worth surfacing, particularly for anyone considering this board or already owning it:

1. Premature Paint Wear
The powder-coated finish began noticeably wearing through on the front edge where my right palm rests in under a year of ownership. It has now become a major eyesore. The paint where the left palm rests seems fine and has a different consistency.
I reached out to Joe (Ellipse), who acknowledged it but pointed to the ToS, stating that cosmetic wear is expected and not covered. While I understand the need for terms, this level of wear on a premium board, one marketed for its heirloom-level quality felt excessive. The current disclosure doesn’t reflect the severity or real-world visibility of this issue, a phrase like “paint wear” can imply minor patina or dings, not bare metal exposure within 6–9 months, or a coating so brittle it flakes under light palm contact from day one.

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I think one of two things should've happened upfront:
If the wear is expected, this should've been more clearly communicated with photos and a strong recommendation to clear coat.
If it's not typical, then the handful of users who get unlucky with a fragile finish should be offered a clean solution.

Community question: Has anyone here refinished their zinc F77 case, used touch-up paint, or proactively clear-coated it? I'd love specific brand/method suggestions.

2. Off-Center Key Scratchiness
Some keys feel noticeably scratchy when pressed off-center. Center presses are fine, but there's a distinct plastic on plastic friction and binding on off angle input.

Is this typical for Model F reproductions? If so, is there any known way to improve it? I've seen references to cleaning and relubing vintage boards, but I'd appreciate any proven approaches specific to these modern reproductions.

Despite these two pain points, I'm still impressed with the typing feel and general build of the board. But the paint wear has been a major eyesore, and the scratchiness slightly detracts from the otherwise stellar tactile response.
Appreciate any advice from others who’ve faced similar issues or found solid solutions.

[Ellipse]

Posting (with permission) another nice F122 setup, customized with keys from various key groups on the Extra Keys store page.

This one features one of those third party IBM new production badges (I believe from eBay) that I do not offer. The spot on the keyboard is designed to fit the IBM F122 style badges (the PC AT badges won't fit since they are bigger).

Everyone please share your new Model F photos, or send them to me if you prefer me to share them.

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F122 various (2).png (2.56 MiB) Viewed 2343 times

[ClickNClack]

The above keyboard with an IBM logo is mine.

I just wanted to provide a quick review.

I have been using PCs since the early 90s, got started on old IBM AT/XT stuff I found cheap at garage sales and such, loved systems from the 80s. 20 years in IT doing everything from programming to networks to sysadmin to cybersecurity. Run my own business now.

About a year ago I decided to look into mechanical keyboards after years of using whatever was sitting around and discovered there were buckling spring keyboards available. I had many fond memories of these growing up on my early collection of PCs. Ordered an F122 and a couple Unicomps new Model Ms about a year ago to use for work and hobby. The Unicomps were a big improvement over the cheap junk I had been using, but I was very surprised how much better this F122 is than the Unicomps. Have been using the Unicomps for a year, just got my F122 today.

The setup is going to take you some time, but I was able to get mine from in the box to assembled, tested and mapped with Vial within a few hours. Had to replace a spring on the 10 key + with a spare I had in the repair kit I ordered with the unit, also had to do the spring reseat on F8.

The feel of this keyboard is amazing. I was not expecting there to be such a jump from the Unicomp to these. Less torque required for each keystroke by what feels like 10-20% at least and the action is so smooth. The sound is very different, higher pitch with more of a ping than the Unicomps/Model M. The keyboards I remember getting started on so many years ago were loud and so that does not bother me, I like it. Been happy with the Unicomps but this Model F is just a whole different experience and quite a bit nicer to type on. Also Vial is awesome, and with the macros feature you can do pretty much anything you want with these.

This project is quite an accomplishment. I've done custom hardware and software with commercial sales and I know that is hard to get right, and honestly the fact that I can go order a new condition Model F of any sort in the 2020s is a little crazy. I know from following posts here there have been teething issues to work through but this is a Herculean effort on the part of Ellipse to be able to deliver the product I am typing this on. Well done.

[Ellipse]

The above keyboard with an IBM logo is mine.

I just wanted to provide a quick review.

I have been using PCs since the early 90s, got started on old IBM AT/XT stuff I found cheap at garage sales and such, loved systems from the 80s. 20 years in IT doing everything from programming to networks to sysadmin to cybersecurity. Run my own business now.

About a year ago I decided to look into mechanical keyboards after years of using whatever was sitting around and discovered there were buckling spring keyboards available. I had many fond memories of these growing up on my early collection of PCs. Ordered an F122 and a couple Unicomps new Model Ms about a year ago to use for work and hobby. The Unicomps were a big improvement over the cheap junk I had been using, but I was very surprised how much better this F122 is than the Unicomps. Have been using the Unicomps for a year, just got my F122 today.

The setup is going to take you some time, but I was able to get mine from in the box to assembled, tested and mapped with Vial within a few hours. Had to replace a spring on the 10 key + with a spare I had in the repair kit I ordered with the unit, also had to do the spring reseat on F8.

The feel of this keyboard is amazing. I was not expecting there to be such a jump from the Unicomp to these. Less torque required for each keystroke by what feels like 10-20% at least and the action is so smooth. The sound is very different, higher pitch with more of a ping than the Unicomps/Model M. The keyboards I remember getting started on so many years ago were loud and so that does not bother me, I like it. Been happy with the Unicomps but this Model F is just a whole different experience and quite a bit nicer to type on. Also Vial is awesome, and with the macros feature you can do pretty much anything you want with these.

This project is quite an accomplishment. I've done custom hardware and software with commercial sales and I know that is hard to get right, and honestly the fact that I can go order a new condition Model F of any sort in the 2020s is a little crazy. I know from following posts here there have been teething issues to work through but this is a Herculean effort on the part of Ellipse to be able to deliver the product I am typing this on. Well done.

Thanks for your review ClickNClack and for the photos!

[resonator]

1. Premature Paint Wear
2. Off-Center Key Scratchiness

I (and others) have experienced both those issues and we discussed them at length between maybe October or November through to December last year. There were experiments done on scratchiness.

In short, I replaced the caps and barrels on the scratchy switches. They've been good since.

I also wore through the paint after about three months and received a replacement case. I've been using that under the same conditions and it's still fine. My opinion is that some cases were painted with defective paint. Everything was supposed to be the same so I can only assume it was an error at the factory. Ellipse has no evidence of this so take it as pure speculation.

[Ordinary Witch]

my F122 arrived safely just earlier today, but with some minor easily fixable damage (bent pins on solenoid driver) to the accessories.
I took the inner assembly apart and modified the board by putting in basically as many flippers as I humanly could, aside from not splitting the enter key. put it back together with 3" C-clamps and some application of a hammer, installed the solenoid and driver and flashed the new firmware. this thing is working amazingly, and I somehow didn't have to redo a single part of this. I can confirm that the solenoid is deafeningly loud. it's the type of noise I'd expect from an airgun being fired

pictures and *maybe* a typing sound demo later, I promise (though mine doesn't look as vibrant compared to the other ones posted

edit: the pictures

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[Ellipse]

Thanks for sharing photos of your modded F122 Ordinary Witch!

I like the terminal-style customizations that remind me of the F122 originals.

Can folks please share what they do with the custom keys in Vial? To give people ideas on the possibilities. Are they macros? Key combinations? Do they open specific programs?

F77E39 I can confirm that the two issues were discussed over the years. Regarding paint loss, this is disclosed on the project web site as you mentioned, and the paint formulation changed years ago to a tougher powdercoating with no reports of premature wear (the oldest keyboards with this new powdercoating were the compact F77 and compact F62 keyboards that were powdercoated and die cast instead of CNC milled and anodized; the new cases started shipping in early 2022). In summary every keyboard besides the two originals does not have this issue because the issue was due to the old style paint used on all the original style zinc cases; once current stock is depleted that powdercoating will no longer be available, but it is the only option if you want one of the original project boards. It is not an issue related to a possibly defective batch as there are far more reports of keyboards from that batch in perfect paint condition after years of daily usage.

Regarding a few reports of scratchiness:

For those few folks reporting scratchy keys please do some more research to see what is the matter or what some possible fixes may be (see the links below). Out of thousands of boards shipped since 2019 this issue has only been reported by a handful of people and only on the DT forum, so I am inclined to believe that this is more of people noticing differences compared to their other keyboards, which may be described as having a smoother feel, whether IBM or not.

I just went back in my emails to see previous discussions. In two of the earliest discussions, folks reported scratchiness with off-center pressing in an original IBM XT Model F keyboard, and it persisted with one example even after a thorough restoration including ultrasonic cleaning of the parts. Otherwise I can't find any reports of new production 1U keys being scratchy outside of the several reports here.

I see a few discussions of scratchiness in original IBM Model M and Model F keyboards (linked below), including some mod attempts that folks have tried, revolving around removing excess flashing. I don't see excess flashing on the new production keys but maybe trimming parts of the stem like the very bottom edge of the keycap or the semicircular area may help with original keys. Are these keys a fraction of a mm too tall and it is touching the PCB when pressed? According to one DT member in 2014: "The other thing to check for - is the bottom lips of the stem don't have any flash on them. I ran into this a couple times with new stems from Unicomp - where a little bit of flash would rub against the spring making it feel scratchy. Quick work with a razor can clean this up."

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I don't know what the current status of that is from those who have been doing tests. There was some discussion of using a dremel to remove a mold parting line inside the barrel, but I am not sure if that fixed the issue that a few folks reported.

resonator, did you replace them with caps and barrels from the same batch or from a different shipment from years before or after the originals? Have you been using the board for many months without issue after replacing the barrels and keys? Can you try the reported scratchy keys and barrels outside of the keyboard to see if they are the same, and see if you can notice anything different with them? Could it be an issue of tolerances (maybe the key stem was a little too wide and/or the barrel interior was a little too small - you may need a micrometer or caliper to determine this accurately)? Do you see evidence of excess flashing or wear on the keys or barrels?

[ms264556]

My F122 arrived this morning. I went through the install instructions just now.

I had to fiddle with 6 of the springs (3 before I started putting keys on because they didn't 'rest' right, and 3 more that buzzed when pressed).

And almost all of my stabilizer keys needed the wiggle fix to make them smooth.

But the keyboard worked perfectly once plugged in.

Honestly, from comments in this thread I was expecting all sorts of issues. Just looking at the way the mechanism works, I can't see how it could be reliably shipped without the post-arrival tweaking so I'm happy overall.

The keyboard rings like crazy while I'm typing, so I'm going to try the blutack-on-the-base trick someone else mentioned to see if it quietens that down. It's quite quiet apart from that though.

I do have a couple of comments though...

The gap behind the function keys is wide enough so, from where I sit above the keyboard, there's a shadow which makes it obvious how rough the edge has been cut.

And my spacebar is a bit warped. If I hold it symmetrical then it's not too noticable. But of course it rests to one side so I see it. I think I fixed a bent PBT spacebar in the past with a hair drier, so I might give that a go.

Edit:

I added 3 packs of blutack & not much changed noise-wise.

So I bought some super floss and spent an hour or so floss modding 122 keys.

No ringing at all now.

I have a matias tactile pro which I can't use because it rings so loudly, and the F122 was louder. So really pleased with the outcome.

[resonator]

resonator, did you replace them with caps and barrels from the same batch or from a different shipment from years before or after the originals? Have you been using the board for many months without issue after replacing the barrels and keys? Can you try the reported scratchy keys and barrels outside of the keyboard to see if they are the same, and see if you can notice anything different with them? Could it be an issue of tolerances (maybe the key stem was a little too wide and/or the barrel interior was a little too small - you may need a micrometer or caliper to determine this accurately)? Do you see evidence of excess flashing or wear on the keys or barrels?

I bought a few more barrels with the replacement keycaps about a year after I received my keyboard. The newer barrels went into my first-aid kit and got mixed up with the barrels I already had. I can't say whether I replaced the barrels from the scratchy keys with newer or older barrels.

I did buy another delete key (1.5u above enter) with an alternative legend when I got the replacement caps, but I didn't end up using it because it was scratchy and my original wasn't.

I've been using the replacement keys since about January. They're all still buttery smooth.

Wear can be seen in the barrels and on the stems of the scratchy parts. I'm happy to send them to you to examine if you like. There are four of each. I didn't record which stem was used with which barrel but it shouldn't be hard to find a scratchy combination. Send me an email or PM with your postage details if you're interested.

[Takashi]

1. Premature Paint Wear

As previously noted, this has been discussed for a while.

I ordered two F77's.
One took 1+ year before the wear started.
For the other one, it only went a few days before the color started to chip.

For the first one, it was obvious that it was wear as the paint really never "chipped" but just slowly wore down, while for the other the paint was probably never correctly applied as it never wore down but just started to chip (see photos here: viewtopic.php?p=523292#p523292, keyboard #1 is the one where the chipping started more or less immediately).
So there are definitely differences in the paint. If not in the formula, then definitely in the application.

I'm disappointed with the paint on both of these so I'll most likely get them repainted in the future.

With that being said, the paint is really the only thing I'm disappointed with. In every other aspect, I'm immensely happy with the keyboards. I've used a ton of keyboards since the '80s and there is no keyboard that comes anywhere close in the typing experience as these. Both of them are my daily drivers (and have been since I got them), and I can't see myself ever changing to something else (other than possibly the F122).

[ClickNClack]

Some of my key macros:

[Ordinary Witch]

the only macro I currently have is the [C] key on the numpad, which runs ctrl+a backspace. the code key currently does nothing, but I'll write some custom firmware code that includes a built-in calculator that I'll be able to use, toggled on and off by that key. the keys on the left side block are mostly for toggling keyboard functionality behind the "mode" key, as well as some other miscellaneous stuff. the "caps lock" looking key on the left side block triggers my drop-down terminal.

[Ellipse]

Thanks; please keep the custom notes coming!


Project milestone - this week the 6,500th keyboard shipped, for the new Model F and Beam Spring keyboard projects! Who would have known that we would reach that when the project started and I was getting quotes to make 50 F62 and 50 F77 keyboards!

[RedESC]

Any way of knowing where we are in the queue for shipping?

[Takashi]

Today I did a complete cleaning of the F77 keyboard (been my daily driver for three years, so it was about time), and while I was at it, I decided to update the firmware to vial from the QMK.

My keyboard is manufactured in 2020, and I started using it in mid-2022. It was flashed with QMK as Vial was not an option back then.
I simply thought I'd share the process of what I did to get it to replace the QMK with Vial.
Note that these instructions are for a Swedish F77 / ISO layout with Block1 INS/Del/Etc-layout (f77 iso block1 Ins Del etc.bat). Just replace the bat-in the below step with whatever is appropriate for you.
This was executed on a Windows 11 Pro machine.

1. I downloaded the firmware zip-file. https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... -files.zip
2. For some reason it's a zip that is inside another zip. Just unzip until I got all the way to the root.
3. Next I started the CMD (in admin-mode, just to be sure).
4. Next I started the batch-file "f77 iso block1 Ins Del etc.bat" (here replace it with whatever is appropriate for you). It will now be waiting at "Waiting for keyboard..."
5. Next I unplugged the keyboard & opened it up.
6. Next I made sure to short the two "PROG"-pins (not the RESET one). They are a little harder to get to than the RESET-pins but still ok. I used tweezers that I pushed really hard against the two pads. You have to push REALLY hard otherwise the controller wont load in bootloader mode.
7. Now I plugged the USB-c cable in. I made sure that the keyboard showed up as something like "ATMEGA DFU" in the device manager.
8. Now I installed the Atmel FLIP 3.4.7 drivers: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/flip
9. After installing the drivers, I selected the "ATMEGA DFU" device in the device manager, then selected "Update driver" and "Browse my computer for driver software", selected "C:\Program files (x86)\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb", and selected "Ok"
10. As soon as I clicked on and the device-drivers were loaded, the batch-file above continued and did the flashing of the software.

Tada!!!:


When it was done, I unplugged and plugged the keyboard in again, and now it was possible to configure it with the Vial online tool.

And here is the newly cleaned & flashed keyboard: