deskthority

Recently, I have become interested in reviving computer terminal keyboards from the 1970s and early 1980s, such as the DEC VT100:
Image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100

These keyboards have not received as much attention from enthusiasts as those made by IBM for at least two reasons: first, through the inspired efforts of Xwhatsit and Soarer, we have the means to use IBM terminal boards with modern computers; second, the beam spring and capacitive buckling spring switches used by IBM made typing on their terminal keyboards a pleasurable experience.*

However, during the 70s and early 80s, there were many companies in addition to IBM that were producing terminal keyboards and/or keyboards for specialized functions, such as dedicated word processors. These included such brands as ADDS, Allen Bradley, Burroughs, Data General, DEC, Fluke, Fujitsu, HP, Honeywell, Hyperion, IDT, Kaypro, Link, Memorex Telex, NBI, Osborne, Plessey, Prime, Qume, Sanyo, Televideo, Triad, Univac, Visual Technology, Victor, Volker-Craig, Wang, Westinghouse, Wyse, Xerox and Zenith, among others.

Many of the old terminal keyboards have inviting aesthetics, often inspired by the IBM Selectric typewriters that they were emulating. Unfortunately, unless the boards were made by IBM, more often than not, the key switches that were used did not make for a pleasant typing experience.

With all this in mind, I am interested in knowing about your favorite non-IBM terminal keyboards, your reasons for selecting them, and how you have revived (or how you are planning to revive) the keyboards for use with modern computers. I am particularly interested in knowing if any of these terminal keyboards have switches that render them comfortable enough (in your opinion) for daily driver status.

For my part, I have decided to start with a DEC VT100 keyboard. I like the appearance, layout, and size of this board. It also has sufficient keys to remap some as modifiers and/or Fn, and a method has been posted online for converting it to USB:

http://hackaday.com/2013/08/13/usb-adap ... -keyboard/

I would be interested in knowing if anyone here (including Xwhatsit, Soarer, Hasu, HaaTa, mr_a500, Dorkvader, or others) has alternative ideas for a USB conversion as well as sources for keycaps**.

*There is at least one exception or partial exception: Soarer has extended his converter beyond IBM to include Wyse terminal keyboards.

**BTW, regarding keycaps for the VT100, I found a manual online and learned that back in its day, you could order replacement keycaps and blanks for the keyboard directly from DEC.

Hypersphere wrote: I would be interested in knowing if anyone here (including Xwhatsit, Soarer, Hasu, HaaTa, mr_a500, or others) has alternative ideas for a USB conversion as well as sources for keycaps**.

you can get new keycaps for honeywell terminals from Signatureplastics. I have a few new ones they made with the mount.

They can also made "newer" style keytronic mount that may or may not work on older keytronic keyboard like DEC / sol / kaypro / etc.

Most of the rest (hitek / stackpole / tee-alps, futaba, etc) you'll likely have to DIY-up your own.

I have a ADDS 1010 terminal keyboard that I got a garage sale for $4, which I'm attempting to revive by attaching a teensy off of the main IC and using Hasu's keyboard firmware flashed with the stock matrix. http://imgur.com/a/vq9iQ (Process so far)

Also I haz this Maple 122 key terminal keyboard which I got from ebay for $20(inc. $10 postage ). I'm not sure whether to revive this one or harvest the switches :/ I don't have a use for the keyboard unfortunately. http://imgur.com/a/EBGq4

Not a terminal keyboard but I'm also working on a AEKII which I've modded the switches to be undampened, just need to be lubed, keycap sourced and converted with a cheap Chinese atmega controller, which I've got but my soldering iron broke so... http://imgur.com/a/kixXX

I like what you're trying to do with the ADDS, but hooking a Teensy up to the matrix in parallel with the stock controller… hmm, could be trouble. Because when you strobe the matrix, you will strobe the output lines on the original controller, too. I don't know if this is risky, but I do suspect you could get false signals superimposed on the matrix from the old electronics. That's what put me off trying this myself. Could be worth a shot, though.

About those undamped Alps… got any plans for the dampers? I quite like those damped tactile AEKs.

For those who are interested and who haven't yet seen the blog posts by Seth Morabito on his USB conversion of a DEC VT100 keyboard, I highly recommend taking a look. He does a nice job of explaining his thinking and unraveling what the DEC engineers did over thirty years ago:

http://www.loomcom.com/blog/category/re ... lenge2013/

Then there is a very different approach taken by "Tarzan" on GH to revive a Televideo terminal keyboard by hardwiring all the switches:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49758.0

I think I would prefer to do something more along the lines of the first approach, but being somewhat "electronically challenged", I would need an explicit wiring diagram to follow. Although Seth Morabito's documentation is quite complete, it assumes some expertise that I am still struggling to acquire.

My hope is that there might be an electronic Rosetta Stone for these venerable terminal keyboards, and that someone in our community could come up with a generic converter like Soarer's for the IBM XT/AT/122, Hasu's for Mac ADB boards, and Xwhatsit's for the IBM beam spring terminal keyboards.

I doubt that any of the old terminal boards will turn out to be a pleasure to type on like the IBM capacitive buckling spring or beam spring terminal boards, but some of them are rather aesthetically pleasing, and there might be some pleasant surprises in store as people uncover mystery switches lurking in the dusty shadows.

Hypersphere wrote: I doubt that any of the old terminal boards will turn out to be a pleasure to type on like the IBM capacitive buckling spring or beam spring terminal boards, but some of them are rather aesthetically pleasing, and there might be some pleasant surprises in store as people uncover mystery switches lurking in the dusty shadows.

I don't remember any keyboards from the old days that particularly stuck out as being nice to type on, aside from the IBMs. Most of the other keyboards were linear with varying degrees of friction and key bounce. I spent a lot of time using a Decwriter, which had a good but not exceptional keyboard. The Honeywell terminals with their hall-effect switches had an extremely smooth, linear feel. I guess if I were after anything, it would be the Honeywells. There are actually a couple listed on eBay now at astronomical prices.

quantalume wrote:

Hypersphere wrote: I doubt that any of the old terminal boards will turn out to be a pleasure to type on like the IBM capacitive buckling spring or beam spring terminal boards, but some of them are rather aesthetically pleasing, and there might be some pleasant surprises in store as people uncover mystery switches lurking in the dusty shadows.

I don't remember any keyboards from the old days that particularly stuck out as being nice to type on, aside from the IBMs. Most of the other keyboards were linear with varying degrees of friction and key bounce. I spent a lot of time using a Decwriter, which had a good but not exceptional keyboard. The Honeywell terminals with their hall-effect switches had an extremely smooth, linear feel. I guess if I were after anything, it would be the Honeywells. There are actually a couple listed on eBay now at astronomical prices.

Today I unpacked my first wave of terminal / old computer keyboards; I have tried to find what appear to be good quality boards from the DEC VT100 era that are selling on eBay for sane prices. This batch included the following: Apple M0110, Decision Data Maxi Q3, Industrial Data Terminals 92-00132, IBM F122, Perkin-Elmer 7300, Televideo 950, Telex 20532-002, and Wyse WY-30.

After doing a quick tryout of each board just to get an impression of typing feel, there is no doubt that the IBM F122 stands out as having the best typing feel (and sound). The IBM also has the best layout, in my view. Most of the others had problems of one kind or another, although each one had something to like as well.

I am now at home and the boards are at work, but here are my recollections:

Apple M0110: Nice HHKB-like form factor and symmetry; okay switches; ugly yellowed color; known to be convertible to USB via Hasu's converter.

Decision Data Q3: Handsome board with some promising layout features; terrible linear switches of some kind, some of them stuck. Phone cord type of connector; not sure about interfacing with a modern computer.

IBM F122: Best overall. Solid build, beautiful dye-sub PBT keycaps, excellent capacitive buckling spring switches, hugh form factor but good layout that is relatively easily modded to ANSI and/or Mac-HHKB for those who like these layouts, known to be convertible to USB via Soarer's Converter.

Industrial Data Terminals 92-00132: Best of the terminal keyboards that I have seen thus far. All-metal case. Beautiful double-shot spherical keycaps. Keytronic F&F linear switches with springs beneath the keycaps, but the switches feel very smooth -- I could imagine actually typing on this thing for long periods. Attractive but odd layout -- there is an arrow cluser on the left. There were no cables furnished; there are two ports on the keyboard -- what looks like a DIN 5 or 6 and a 25-pin serial. No idea at this point how to interface this board with a modern computer, but if this could be done, it would be a candidate for serious typing. This one is the dark horse of the bunch -- I had not heard of this company before, and there is virtually no information about it on the web.

Perkin-Elmer 7300: Attractive colors in a 60s Star-Trek sort of way. Double-shot spherical keycaps that look like SP. Somewhat sticky Hi-Tek modular switches. DIN 5 connector; not sure about interfacing to a modern computer.

Televideo 950: Relatively compact for a terminal keyboard. Double-shot spherical keycaps. Futaba linear switches with a short travel; not very pleasant for typing. Phone cord type of connector; not sure about interfacing with a modern computer, although I have seen a post describing doing this by hardwiring the switches.

Telex 20532-00 2: Relatively attractive board with a promising layout. Terrible rubber dome switches, some of them stuck. Phone cord type connector; not sure about interfacing with a modern computer.

Wyse WY-30: Nicely small form factor. Somewhat promising layout, but too bad it has a num pad -- it could almost have been an Apple M0110 or HHKB. Thin double-shot keycaps. Black Cherry switches -- they feel okay, but the spacebar stabs rattle. Phone cord type of connector, but known to be connectable to a modern computer using the extended Soarer Converter for Wyse terminal keyboards. Not the most attractive board, but it could be dressed up a bit; I rather like it.

I am still awaiting delivery of a Datapoint 10-2440-004, DEC VT100, KayPro 4, and Victor 9000. I have had my eye on several others as well, but after today's experience, I find myself clicking my heels three times and chanting, "There's no place like IBM."

Nevertheless, those Honeywell terminals certainly look beautiful. Opinions seem to vary, however, on how plausible it might be to convert a keyboard with Hall Effect switches to USB. Perhaps if the prices were to come down by an order of magnitude....

I suspect you either work at a museum, or a place soon to become one!

I try to take my time gathering new keyboards. More like one every few months so far, rather than a whole collection in a day! Of course, you're going to have to get a camera now to make the most of these. If you can't plug it right in and type, then at least there's pictures…

All Wyse doubleshots are thin DCS profile by SP, as I remember. In fact I should have a picture of them next to Honeywells around here somewhere.

Muirium wrote: I suspect you either work at a museum, or a place soon to become one!

I try to take my time gathering new keyboards. More like one every few months so far, rather than a whole collection in a day! Of course, you're going to have to get a camera now to make the most of these. If you can't plug it right in and type, then at least there's pictures…

All Wyse doubleshots are thin DCS profile by SP, as I remember. In fact I should have a picture of them next to Honeywells around here somewhere.

These acquisitions were not purchased all at once. I have been piling them up in my work office waiting for a day off to start unpacking them. I seem obsessed with trying every switch ever made and working my way back in time. Somewhere/somewhen clay tablets await my cuneiform imprints.

It would be fun to create a keyboard museum if I had the space (and funds). As it is, when I can get around to it, most of the rejects will probably go back on sale on eBay. However, I would like to have a go at getting some of the better keyboards up and running with my contemporary computers. Certainly, the IBMs can be made functional, and I should be able to restore/convert the Apple M0110 and Wyse 30 as well. The DEC VT100 is within the realm of possibility; the others are either more problematic or they reside in unknown territory with respect to being convertible to USB. I have a fanciful notion that if I can become reasonably skilled at restoring/converting computer/terminal keyboards, I would start a minor enterprise selling customized versions to people who appreciate such things.

I regret that I am not handy with a camera and microphone. I really ought to document my keyboard assessments with images and sound files. There needs to be some way of recording tactile responses as well; I suppose even this is possible using some sort of haptic glove device.

Muirium wrote: I
All Wyse doubleshots are thin DCS profile by SP, as I remember. In fact I should have a picture of them next to Honeywells around here somewhere.

SP didnt exist in 1984. WYSE used comptec to make their keycaps. Later, the comptec molds were purchased by SP, so the font, shape, etc. is the same.
see: http://www.solutionsinplastic.com/about_history.html

Honeywell terminals are usually great: very linear. Sometimes if they were used too much, the keys start to bind a little as grit gets in there. I recommend a thorough cleaning, and you may want to lubricate the stems.

Vintage keytronic foam&foil with the visible springs are great! I was impressed with them.

Very true: Wyse caps are by SP's predecessor. Same characteristics, indeed same tooling, but a later firm.

@dorkvader: Thanks for your comments. I expect to receive a Honeywell later this week. I have been reluctant to lubricate the stems on any of my keyboards for fear of lubricant contaminating the electronic innards. What kind of lubricant would you recommend for the stems?

Yes, after seeing many negative comments in the forums about F&F switches, I was pleasantly surprised by them in the IDT keyboard. Perhaps the main drawback is that the foam degrades over time.

well I certainly wouldnt lube a foam&foil switch.

The good news with hall effect is that they aren't very susceptible to liquid damage. I just put mineral oil on mine. I'm sure a lot of it will end up on the PCB, but it's not hurting anything there. I may re-apply with Krytox (an expensive fluorinated centrifuge lube) or with graphite (or other dry lube)

The only other keyboard I lubed was a general dynamics ruggedized keyboard that is fully sealed, so in both cases, I'm completely unworried about contamination.

One good part about the older "dual magnet" style switch is that you can remove the sliders from the switch housing and clean / lube them individually. The bad news is that the housing is made from a much harder polymer than the sliders so it wears them a little.

Your Keyboard uses the "single magnet" design which is more resistant to contamination getting in, and better on off-axis hits, especially for an example in good shape, which I believe yours to be. I don't expect lube to be needed for the next few years o fheavy use, unless you plan to use it in a "dirty" environment like a machine shop.

dorkvader wrote: well I certainly wouldnt lube a foam&foil switch.

The good news with hall effect is that they aren't very susceptible to liquid damage. I just put mineral oil on mine. I'm sure a lot of it will end up on the PCB, but it's not hurting anything there. I may re-apply with Krytox (an expensive fluorinated centrifuge lube) or with graphite (or other dry lube)

The only other keyboard I lubed was a general dynamics ruggedized keyboard that is fully sealed, so in both cases, I'm completely unworried about contamination.

One good part about the older "dual magnet" style switch is that you can remove the sliders from the switch housing and clean / lube them individually. The bad news is that the housing is made from a much harder polymer than the sliders so it wears them a little.

Your Keyboard uses the "single magnet" design which is more resistant to contamination getting in, and better on off-axis hits, especially for an example in good shape, which I believe yours to be. I don't expect lube to be needed for the next few years o fheavy use, unless you plan to use it in a "dirty" environment like a machine shop.

Lubing key switches seems to be a controversial topic. I recall EK advising me never to lube a Topre board, yet some people do all sorts of modifications to their Topres, including lubing them. Some lubricants could also do damage to certain types of components. Mineral oil (petroleum based) can damage rubber; I am not sure if it can damage various synthetic polymers. Graphite is an electrical conductor, so that presumably this ought to be avoided if it could get into parts of a switch that could be compromised by electrically conducting particles. A lubricated surface can entrap particulate matter so that as you have pointed out, lubrication could make things worse, especially in a dirty environment. It seems that the best approach might be to clean but not lubricate and then try to keep the keyboard clean.

Muirium wrote: I like what you're trying to do with the ADDS, but hooking a Teensy up to the matrix in parallel with the stock controller… hmm, could be trouble. Because when you strobe the matrix, you will strobe the output lines on the original controller, too. I don't know if this is risky, but I do suspect you could get false signals superimposed on the matrix from the old electronics. That's what put me off trying this myself. Could be worth a shot, though.

About those undamped Alps… got any plans for the dampers? I quite like those damped tactile AEKs.

Sheeeeiiiiiiit, I don't know much about electronics to be honest. The controller is modular so I'll just pull it out and it should be good
I have no plans for them really, did you want em?
P.S. What lube do you recommend for the alps switches, the ones on the AEKII are super crappy to depress. (I really don't wanna have to open each switch up again)

bitemyweewee wrote: P.S. What lube do you recommend for the alps switches, the ones on the AEKII are super crappy to depress. (I really don't wanna have to open each switch up again)

I'd rather not install depression in my switches

I have a couple of IDT keyboards if anyone is interested.