deskthority

This is definitely nothing new but I wanted to share with you my impressions on this Realforce.

To give you an idea of the kind of typist I am, I can tell you that I like clicky buttons, the clicker the better. MX blue is the only MX I can use. I love buckling springs and I have really an hard time using linear switches. Also I don't like light springs but when they are too heavy I get tired quickly, basically I like a good amount of resistance only at the very beginning of the travel.





The build quality is very good. The keyboard is solid and heavy. Unfortunately the rear sliding feet are not rubbered and the keyboard tends to slip a bit. Actually this doesn't seem a problem when typing. I guess some additional rubber pads would solve this issue, but --you know-- for this price you expect perfection.





Key strength/resistance is simply fantastic. I tried 45gr Topres too, they feels okay but a bit too light for my taste. Even though the key travel is long, the actuation point is very close to the top. With 45gr I found myself pressing keys by mistake. I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it but 55gr are simply perfect. Everyone was telling me that 55gr was too heavy, I don't have strong fingers but I find them absolutely perfect. I suggest everyone in love with 45gr Topres to try the 55gr variant because they are poetry for the fingers.





Caps are PBT dye-syb and they feel great. Switches are plate mounted and they sound like "tock" more than "click". I must say that I like it. You can perceive the rubber underneath and you feel guilty about it because you actually like it. You can listen to them in a short video I took.

There are some additional caps in the box (which is always nice). I don't find the lavender WASD going too well with the 10th anniversary colors, but the red ESC gives the keyboard a nice touch.



The typing experience is pleasant overall. Definitely less tiring than MX Blue. Key presses come natural with a very nice tactile and audible feedback. I don't know why but I find myself more accurate and typing faster on these switches. I can't really tell why. I don't think it's because of the shape of the keys that seems pretty standard. I'm especially efficient with my little fingers despite the 55gr.





What I don't like. if I really have to find something...

A common problem of all standard layout keyboards is the arrow cluster position, too far to the right forcing a lot of right hand movements. We can't really blame this keyboard about this, it's just how the standard layout is done.

Also it's just a pinch too big. Horizontally is fine so I can keep the mouse closer, vertically it's a 1u too tall. A Filco case layout would have been so much better, but in all honesty this is not enough not to buy the realforce.

Lastly I cannot stand the two domed windows keys. Really, they make me sick! Please someone find me alternatives!

The reason not to buy it is just the price. Is it so good to justify the €315 (board+shipping+duty tax)? With so many alternatives in the market you really have to like Topre, specifically 55gr Topre (which by the way IMVHO is the only topre worth attention). But potentially this could be your last keyboard and considering the build quality (caps included) it could last for a very very long time.

Also, if you consider that to a Filco you will end up adding a set of custom caps, the price difference is not that much.

Nice review (and photos). I still think 45g uniform is the cat's pyjamas, though Also I think the red Esc just doesn't suit this board, but that's just like...my opinion, man.

One of the finest keyboards there is. I'd get it in white, of course, but you're spot on.

Two questions though: why is there a Leopold logo in the bottom? Did Topre buy the company!? Maybe even vice versa! I know that Leopold sell Topre's product line in Korea, but they also rebadge them?

And membrane? Are you sure? These are rubber domes, for sure, and by far the best ones that exist; such is Topre's reputation. But aren't they discrete capacitative switches?

Anyway, enjoy your dyesub Helvetica!

Leopold were the company who basically "commissioned" Topre to make these boards, which is why their name appears on the sticker etc. Topre like to do this with their distributors. I guess they encourage them to order their own exclusive Topre keyboard. On a much smaller scale you've got the EK (EliteKeyboards) edition 87U 45g with red LEDs.

Muirium wrote:Two questions though: why is there a Leopold logo in the bottom? Did Topre buy the company!? Maybe even vice versa! I know that Leopold sell Topre's product line in Korea, but they also rebadge them?

Isn't Leopold the official distributor (worldwide)? Edit: 002 knows better

Muirium wrote:And membrane? Are you sure? These are rubber domes, for sure, and by far the best ones that exist; such is Topre's reputation. But aren't they discrete capacitative switches?

wrong wording sorry.

I mean a membrane of rubber They are rubber domes of course, one per switch instead of one piece of rubber all over the keyboard... but still a membrane of rubber

Muirium wrote:And membrane? Are you sure? These are rubber domes, for sure, and by far the best ones that exist; such is Topre's reputation. But aren't they discrete capacitative switches?

matt3o must have named the rubber sheet a membrane, and they aren't discrete switches because there's a large rubber sheet on top and a large PCB on the bottom.

See http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_integrated_dome or http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX for comparison.

Indeed. I actually have that very Zenith laptop keyboard Daniel used for the pictures on the wiki!

(This is my third rewrite of this post now that everyone's weighing in!)

Membranes are fine anyway, they put the M in the Model M of all acknowledged greats, and Topre did experiment with them at one point. I'm sure 002 had a thread about it some weeks ago. But their high end stuff is discrete.

And Matt: don't fear the rubber dome! When done well, instead of just cheaply, it can be as graceful a switch as them all.

002 wrote:Leopold were the company who basically "commissioned" Topre to make these boards, which is why their name appears on the sticker etc. Topre like to do this with their distributors. I guess they encourage them to order their own exclusive Topre keyboard. On a much smaller scale you've got the EK (EliteKeyboards) edition 87U 45g with red LEDs.

Ah, fair enough. The mysterious Topre way. I didn't even know the EK commissioned ones had EK instead of Topre on the badge. Most reviews forget to turn the keyboard over!

do replacements exist for the winkey? I cannot stand them.

matt3o wrote:do replacements exist for the winkey? I cannot stand them.

Your best bet is to replace them with a blank key with the same profile, menu or arrows.
I have some black blank Keys.

350€ ? Is that a premium on the Anniversary edition? (which i reckon you had to choose for the uniform 55g)

My observation so far with the tour-realforce is that the dampened downstroke (hitting the rubber sheet) combined with the tightly screwed thick plate sandwiching make most of the quality feel (which i can confirm). The outer case isn't exactly the bomb though.

So i'm constantly comparing how you'd emulate those attributes with a MX board (since i'm already deep into MX lands). I'm convinced you'd foremost need o-rings (or the alternative i proposed) plus a very properly seated 1.5mm plate. Lubing would probably be required aswell.

Jmneuv wrote:350€ ? Is that a premium on the Anniversary edition? (which i reckon you had to choose for the uniform 55g)

you are right, it was more like €315. I could find the 10th anniversary from Leopold only, so it's $320+shipping+import taxes.

Jmneuv wrote:So i'm constantly comparing how you'd emulate those attributes with a MX board (since i'm already deep into MX lands). I'm convinced you'd foremost need o-rings (or the alternative i proposed) plus a very properly seated 1.5mm plate. Lubing would probably be required aswell.

Maybe o-rings are the answer to MX problems.

The switch housing, or bodies, could also be a major source of the difference. You feel the stem's motion, through the cap, and the stem is ideally confined to a one dimensional path by the housing. Cherry MX switches seem a bit on the mod friendly end of the spectrum, to me, with extreme toughness being at the other end of the range. What you gain in ease of opening, you lose in the sense of rigidity in its motion, which could be perceived as build quality of the entire keyboard.

But then I've never opened up a Topre so…

guys... there's no game here... switching back and forward from MX Blue to Topre (55gr) puts the MX is such a shame that it's almost embarrassing. I hope the Matias ALPS will give me some joy because my custom keyboard adventures are in serious jeopardy.

Just the motivation you need to figure out how to make a custom Topre!

Muirium wrote:Just the motivation you need to figure out how to make a custom Topre!

that's in my mind since I put my hands on this realforce...

Something you mentioned but didn't compare with: buckling spring. Let the truth come out!

Muirium wrote:Something you mentioned but didn't compare with: buckling spring. Let the truth come out!

BS is like a Topre MX Blue. 'nuf said.

That's fighting talk!

If I really have to pick one, it has to be BS. Sorry Topre. But maybe that is for the same reason why I'd pick The Aristocats over dozens better films/animations... I'm sentimentally attached it.

"Topre… with a click." That's the magic switch, so I've heard. Topre has the feel. Buckling spring has the sound. And Cherry has the caps!

Muirium wrote:"Topre… with a click." That's the magic switch, so I've heard. Topre has the feel. Buckling spring has the sound. And Cherry has the caps!

I couldn't have said it better

Muirium wrote:"Topre… with a click." That's the magic switch, so I've heard. Topre has the feel. Buckling spring has the sound. And Cherry has the caps!

AMEN!

One thing that annoyed me while trying a Topre board during the Realforce Euro Tour was the noise of the stabilizers. With the "switches" producing a rather muffled sound, the rattling of the stabilized keys really stood out in a negative way. Oh, and the key legends are not the prettiest around.
Other than that it was typing heaven.

Depends on the key. The spacebar stabiliser is a bit loud (I reseated my spacebar the other day and that helped) but the other stabilised keys have a gentle metallic "ting" that's really lovely. Best stabiliser sound ever.

First thing i'd do on my own topre would be putting some thick grease on this stabiliser 'ting'. In truth it's pretty harmless though, agreed.
The text legends are no less than a scandal.. have to restrain myself not to start sanding and filing on this borrowed board.

I'm curious to know what people's beef is with the text legends? I am not much of a font guy. Is it the 'Backspace' and 'Enter' keys that pisses everyone off or something about the alignment and/or squished up text on some keys? Just looking at my board right now, the 'Home' key in particular does look pretty bad...actually very bad.

I've not laid hands on your Topre yet, 002, but I'd guess it's the texture, not the alignment.

Jmneuv wrote: The text legends are no less than a scandal.. have to restrain myself not to start sanding and filing on this borrowed board.

Oh? Details! (I'd pull the macro lens out, and then wish I hadn't.)

Edit: zooming into Matteo's pictures, I guess it probably is the typesetting of the legends that people are complaining about. Home is cramped, Back Space is boisterous, and Return is somehow both, cramped above its needless symbol. But I still love the simple elegance of Helvetica on the alpha keys. Look at that G. It's the real deal, not one of the curly ripoffs. Great font but inconsistent typography.

I find the legends pretty "neutral". better than Poker for sure Actually I find all characters very well aligned with perfect kerning (thing that SP can't really do).

The spacebar is silent on my model, I can't hear any stab noise on it. The only "loud" key is probably backspace, but nothing that can hurt the overall experience (if you listen to the video I've posted you can identify when I'm pressing the backspace but you can hardly hear the spacebar).

Are the legends on the Realforce really Helvetica?
Looking at the 'C' and 'R' on my board, they don't quite look *exactly* like Helvetica. The 'R' on the Realforce doesn't seem to have the tiny "foot" (I've no idea what it's called) on the right. And the 'C' does not seem to terminate in perfect horizontal, parallel lines like Helvetica's.

Both what you said, 002. I find a keyboard to be something like a type gallery when it's just sitting on the desk.
For instance the tab arrows would need to be below 'Tab' at least for consistency (it's still the worse choice aesthetically); they're even already shrunk to match that alignment. The typo in general is all over the place on the text caps and in itself they aren't exactly pretty. Contrary the alphas are nice with very crisp dyesub. After i've gone crazy about caps once there's no going back to seeing them as minor detail.
Btw, the caps have a decent medium thickness between cherry DS and SP, texture is okay.