deskthority

This is the very common Dell AT 101 in a not so common varaint; case & spacebar are still yellowed but that's fixable. These old Dells are quite uncommon in the EU, this particular one being manufactured in the USA.
While the PCB reads "1990 ALPS" the case reads "2/92" which is around the time production transferred to Silitek. This is interesting because we've had some "unusual" discoveries regarding keycap printing on Dell AT's. You tell me what these keycaps are...
These salmon Alps SKCM are in a good shape for their age, the tactility & smoothness is still fine. The salmons are quieter than the orange Alps yet still provide tactile feedback.
I like this layout with the dual "Z" and "Y" and secondary symbols on the top row. Also ANSI enter and large left shift, this is what ISO should always look like. A bit like on my symbols only M0115 layout.
In terms of overall quality this is very silimair to the SGI granite series, this is the Dell AT 101 to own really. It's generally a gamble with these old Alps SKCM keyboards in terms of what you get and what's fixable and what that is worth to you.
wiki/Dell_AT101

Oh, beautiful! I've never seen an AT101 with sub legends before. I'm really liking this one. It's interesting that it has an ANSI configuration but suited for typing in Derman. ANSI DE? That's pretty awesome.

Both that and the fact it's made in the USA as opposed to their facility in Ireland (it'd be closer at least), is quirky.

Very cool! Do you know of any other AT101s documented with sublegends, seebart?

E3E wrote: Oh, beautiful! I've never seen an AT101 with sub legends before. I'm really liking this one. It's interesting that it has an ANSI configuration but suited for typing in Derman. ANSI DE? That's pretty awesome.

Thanks, it's not a German layout that's for sure. I think it's some varaint of Czech QWERTZ:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTZ

E3E wrote: Both that and the fact it's made in the USA as opposed to their facility in Ireland (it'd be closer at least), is quirky.

Right, definitely for export but I'm not sure if all AT101's for the European market were manufactured in Ireland.

E3E wrote: Very cool! Do you know of any other AT101s documented with sublegends, seebart?

No I have not seen other Dells with this layout but they must exist in smaller numbers.

Oooh. Haha, I saw QWERTZ and I immediately thought DE. I forgot that Czech also has that. I have a little Sharp PA-1000 that was in Czech layout. Oops, no, it was Slovakian. :O

Yeah, true. Not all of them would, though I believe most of the ISO ones I've seen were from Ireland. The very early AT101s were made in Japan. They lacked any serial numbers and had SKCM Black (pine).

Interesting stuff, and thanks for the clarification!

The caps are dyesub PBT. It's an Alps bigfoot made in their USA plant. Alps usually made European models in their Ireland plant, but apparently they did some EU ones in the USA as well.

Silitek used a different process for printing the logo on the case, by the way. Even the old-logo ones look very different between the Alps version and the Silitek one. Silitek also never used PBT caps or salmon Alps as far as I know - they appear to have had a completely different manufacturing process set up just for the production of this keyboard. I'm pretty sure that Alps only supplied the switches, or maybe not even that, and that Silitek manufactured them in-house. Silitek Alps keyboards are so far outside of the Alps timeline that it's quite clearly a different production branch.

Oh, that just reminded me: They very early Dell AT101s manufactured by Alps had ABS doubleshot keys. These are really seldom seen though. I've seen about three or four all together on eBay and Taobao.

One, I couldn't see the FCC sticker for, the other was Made in Japan and had no serial number, and the other was Made in USA, with a 2 digit serial number. Oh right, there was also one more sold on eBay. No idea on the details for that one.

Chyros wrote: The caps are dyesub PBT. It's an Alps bigfoot made in their USA plant. Alps usually made European models in their Ireland plant, but apparently they did some EU ones in the USA as well.

Silitek used a different process for printing the logo on the case, by the way. Even the old-logo ones look very different between the Alps version and the Silitek one. Silitek also never used PBT caps or salmon Alps as far as I know - they appear to have had a completely different manufacturing process set up just for the production of this keyboard. I'm pretty sure that Alps only supplied the switches, or maybe not even that, and that Silitek manufactured them in-house. Silitek Alps keyboards are so far outside of the Alps timeline that it's quite clearly a different production branch.

Thanks for the infos. My question is if I retrobright the case will the logo take damage? The layout is definitly some sort of Czech QWERTZ variation.

E3E wrote: Oh, that just reminded me: They very early Dell AT101s manufactured by Alps had ABS doubleshot keys. These are really seldom seen though. I've seen about three or four all together on eBay and Taobao.
One, I couldn't see the FCC sticker for, the other was Made in Japan and had no serial number, and the other was Made in USA, with a 2 digit serial number. Oh right, there was also one more sold on eBay. No idea on the details for that one.

Well this one is from 1992 so it's a pretty "late" one I guess.

You should have no damage if you Retrobright the case, Seebart. I did so with my first Dell AT101, and the logo was just fine. It's a pretty hardy printing method that they use.

My first one also had a case manufactured in 1992.

E3E wrote: You should have no damage if you Retrobright the case, Seebart. I did so with my first Dell AT101, and the logo was just fine. It's a pretty hardy printing method that they use.

My first one also had a case manufactured in 1992.

Alright then, I'll give it a try on my next bleaching round. I ask because I damaged an SGI logo once when I used that gel hair bleaching stuff in sunlight.

seebart wrote:

E3E wrote: You should have no damage if you Retrobright the case, Seebart. I did so with my first Dell AT101, and the logo was just fine. It's a pretty hardy printing method that they use.

My first one also had a case manufactured in 1992.

Alright then, I'll give it a try on my next bleaching round. I ask because I damaged an SGI logo once when I used that gel hair bleaching stuff in sunlight.

Be careful never to let the creme dry if you use it. In my experience, any time it has dried, it will leave bleaching under the film. I like using a thinned out cream for any tricky areas, like vertical surfaces, and the liquid H2O2 mix for everything else.

Good luck!

Now that I think back, I actually used creme on the AT101 when I did it. It was one of my first indoor Retrobrights. I ended up with a little bleaching on the case. The creme is pretty awful if you don't thin it out a bit. After it is thinned, it doesn't have the tendency to bleach nearly as much.

I've used liquid H2O2 + Distilled Water + Liquid Oxygen bleach to thin out the creme.

It takes me forever to decide what to use to replace Retr0Bright that I cannot so easily get here.

Have been looking at those products that girls use to bleach their hair.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/301926997968
https://www.ebay.de/itm/262894481598
https://www.ebay.de/itm/390370000067

From some posts that I read, one actually doesn't need any UV light to bleach ABS with Retr0Bright and with these.

E3E wrote: I've used liquid H2O2 + Distilled Water + Liquid Oxygen bleach to thin out the creme.

I'll try that thanks. I've invested in some retrobright materials but stil need to get some more supplies to get setup in the bath properly:

Menuhin wrote: It takes me forever to decide what to use to replace Retr0Bright that I cannot so easily get here.

Have been looking at those products that girls use to bleach their hair.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/301926997968
https://www.ebay.de/itm/262894481598
https://www.ebay.de/itm/390370000067

From some posts that I read, one actually doesn't need any UV light to bleach ABS with Retr0Bright and with these.

I've had good experiences with this cream but I never tried the powder sofar:

One point about UV light.
I wanted to invest into a UV light bulb at some point in the past, but 2 things stopped me:

• I came across a chemistry person's post writing about the chemical reactions in "retr0bright" as simply bleaching but not "reversal of the yellowing process of ABS oxidation" as what have common been understood as.
• my super-blond colleague has her hair "dyed" super blond although she just belongs to the very-dirty-blond type, and her stylish uses a combination of those blond cream and blond powder (to make it stronger) *without any UV light equipment* - for about an hour or 1.5 hour of waiting time. And she is as blond as the blondest blond like those wearing a wig.

Menuhin wrote: One point about UV light.
I wanted to invest into a UV light bulb at some point in the past, but 2 things stopped me:

• I came across a chemistry person's post writing about the chemical reactions in "retr0bright" as simply bleaching but not "reversal of the yellowing process of ABS oxidation" as what have common been understood as.

I'm pretty sure that "reversal of the yellowing process of ABS oxidation" does not exist, retrobright is more like a temporary halt rather than any permanent reversal.

Menuhin wrote: [*] my super-blond colleague has her hair "dyed" super blond although she just belongs to the very-dirty-blond type, and her stylish uses a combination of those blond cream and blond powder (to make it stronger) *without any UV light equipment* - for about an hour or 1.5 hour of waiting time. And she is as blond as the blondest blond like those wearing a wig.[/list]

Honestly I don't know what to respond to this. We're bleaching plastics here not dying hair (!) regardless of how "very-dirty" your colleague is.

Just paint everything black. Everything looks good in black.

Harshmallow wrote: Just paint everything black. Everything looks good in black.

Nah come on...I did own a black Dell AT 102W years ago but the black Alps were busted.

derp

Ahh yes exact same layout also. Cool thanks for posting. You sold it?

derp

davkol wrote: Yup, back in spring, to someone from Taiwan.

Ah OK, I still need to do some work on this one. The plate has one spot of rust, the retrobright and possibly a PTFE job.

wd40 saves the day again

Very nice, seebart. I ought to retrobright mine sometime; it's also yellowed to a similar extent.

I'll also have to fix up the switches. They were the dirtiest Alps I had ever come across and sonicating them did no good. They'll need housing swaps.

emdude wrote: Very nice, seebart. I ought to retrobright mine sometime; it's also yellowed to a similar extent.

I'll also have to fix up the switches. They were the dirtiest Alps I had ever come across and sonicating them did no good. They'll need housing swaps.

Thanks. That's too bad about your AT-101. It might me worth it though. Or just replace all the switches if you get a hold of enough clean ones. I've had my fair share of worn dirty scratchy horrible feeling Alps. I bet Alps Electric would honestly tell us today these switches were never intended for usage that long.

I've got decent-feeling Dampened Cream Alps from an AEK II that I'll probably use as donors. I think the housings are period correct too.

Just need to get around to doing it, having to disassemble and reassemble Alps switches is pretty tedious for me and one of my least favorite keyboard activities.

emdude wrote: I've got decent-feeling Dampened Cream Alps from an AEK II that I'll probably use as donors. I think the housings are period correct too.

Cool.

emdude wrote: Just need to get around to doing it, having to disassemble and reassemble Alps switches is pretty tedious for me and one of my least favorite keyboard activities.

Not just for you. Question is the keyboard worth it.

Yes! I enjoy Salmon Alps quite a bit, as much as Oranges at the least. I am just lazy.

seebart wrote:

E3E wrote: I've used liquid H2O2 + Distilled Water + Liquid Oxygen bleach to thin out the creme.

I'll try that thanks. I've invested in some retrobright materials but stil need to get some more supplies to get setup in the bath properly:

IMG_20170721_185400.jpg

Menuhin wrote: It takes me forever to decide what to use to replace Retr0Bright that I cannot so easily get here.

Have been looking at those products that girls use to bleach their hair.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/301926997968
https://www.ebay.de/itm/262894481598
https://www.ebay.de/itm/390370000067

From some posts that I read, one actually doesn't need any UV light to bleach ABS with Retr0Bright and with these.

I've had good experiences with this cream but I never tried the powder sofar:

IMG_20160420_193133.jpg

One day you'll get arrested for having a ecstasy lab

Some relevant info for retr0bright:

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blo ... porary.htm

https://www.quora.com/What-is-happening ... oured-Lego

Menuhin wrote: Some relevant info for retr0bright:

http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blo ... porary.htm

https://www.quora.com/What-is-happening ... oured-Lego

Thanks for those links Menuhin, you might have seen that we have several retr0bright threads here at DT ourselfs, the search function is your friend!

Dunk it all in a tub with some mirrors around the 4 corners and pour water into it until all the keycaps and the keyboard are covered. Then use the Vanish Napisan to create hydrogen peroxide by the fanciful method of pouring in 50 grams or so of it. Stir well and let it sit under the sun for a few hours on end. That, or a blacklight. Or even any light for that matter, most of them produce sufficient UV light to produce a retrobrited product.

Worked pretty well for my ABS case and keys on my BTC 5339 keyboard. Just didn't have mirrors or a proper sized tub and I put too much of that Napisan stuff in the container so in the end it took a whole 3 days to retrobrite. It clouds the water remarkably well.

Also a quick tip - if you are drying keycaps and need them fast, put them all into a large lunchbox, mix with some tissue balls, and then shake hard for 50 seconds in all directions. they should come out dry after 2 cycles of tissue changes.

Using Vanish Napisan also has a great side effect of it being able to clean off any of the dirt that you would otherwise have to clean separately off the keys and the board. No effort to clean them even needed at all. Just leave it and let sit for a couple of hours.

That's how I would do it.