deskthority

Hi everyone, I've been browsing the internet for many hours before finally stumbling upon this site. Needless to say, I registered immediately and here I am asking for advice.

I've been looking to buy my first mechanical keyboard as in some games, it happened to me that I would need a higher rollover for simultaneous key presses (W + C + E) or (shift + alt + up arrow + left arrow). Mechanical keyboard would solve my problem but....
For the past 15 or so years, I've been using standard dome switch / chiclet keyboards. Now my question is very specific and I haven't found a plausible answer for it yet.

What switch feels the most like dome switches / chiclet?
I'd like the feeling of the button press on the mechanical keyboard feel as close as possible to what I'm used to. From the research I've done, it seems it would either be black or red, but I'm worried reds might be too easy to press/bottom-out + I rest my fingers on the keys even if not using them, so I'm more inclined to blacks. I've found the required forces to actuate/bottom-out different switches, but as I don't know the numbers for chiclet keyboards, I have nothing to compare it to. As I have zero experience in mechanicals, it'd be great if some of the keyboard sages here could offer some advice .

Again, my main question is, which switch feels the most like standard keyboards, not what switch is best for what activity (typing, gaming etc.).

Thanks in advance.

If you can spring for a Topre keyboard, that is probably what you want.

Red and black Cherry switches are "linear" which means that they go straight down and back up with no indication of when they activate. I think that you will need a "tactile" switch to replicate the feel of the rubber dome collapsing.

fohat wrote: If you can spring for a Topre keyboard, that is probably what you want.

Red and black Cherry switches are "linear" which means that they go straight down and back up with no indication of when they activate. I think that you will need a "tactile" switch to replicate the feel of the rubber dome collapsing.

Well, from what I feel when pressing a key, it's just down and up and the command goes through when a key is fully pressed. I don't feel any bump in between, so therefore I figured it would be either black or red as I bottom out on my current keyboard with each press anyway. Also, the black / red should be a bit quieter, so that's another plus as I game a lot at night. I've looked into Topre keyboards a bit, but they might be a problem for me to get as there are not many of them available where I live.. So probably Cherry is my only option. I just have no idea how much pressure is 45-60 cN compared to what I'm using now.

idbeholdME wrote:
it's just down and up and the command goes through when a key is fully pressed.

I game a lot at night.

I just have no idea how much pressure is 45-60 cN compared to what I'm using now.

The "command goes through" at the "activation point" which is about halfway down. With a linear switch you can get in a lot of strokes by hovering just at the activation point, and a stiffer spring probably makes this easier.

My son loves to game and uses black Cherries with O-rings which makes for fast quiet work.

If you want something very close to what you're used to (albeit MUCH better in terms of key feel and build quality), I also agree with the suggestion of Topre. They're arguably some of the best rubber domes on the planet, and they're capacitive (which results in full NKRO), so you'll have absolutely no problems with key rollover.

Go with the Topre Type Heaven if you want the cheapest Topre board. If you're willing to pay a little bit more, you have a lot of options. The Type Heaven isn't exactly all that bad of a keyboard, but it's not nearly as good as a Realforce. 35g/45g/55g Topre depends on what you'd like, and if you're used to standard rubber domes, 45g/55g is what you should be looking at. Unless you want a light touch, then go with 35g.

You have quite a few choices in terms of Topre keyboards. If you want Cherry MX keycap compatibility, go with the CM Storm Novatouch. If you really don't care and you want to stick with the stock Topre keycaps (which are extremely high quality anyways), you have a lot more to choose from. You can go with the HHKB Pro 2, which has its own unique and compact layout. Then there's all of the Realforce keyboards, which are very high quality keyboards from Topre themselves. Realforce keyboards all have very standard layouts. And there's the Leopold FC660C.

Personally, I'd suggest the Realforce keyboards and the CM Storm Novatouch. Not that the HHKB and Leopold boards are bad or anything, it's just that you want something that you're used to. Both the Realforce and the CM Storm Novatouch have standard layouts.

I also suggest buying a Cherry MX switch tester to make sure that you absolutely do not want a Cherry MX keyboard. Although a switch tester is not going to guarantee that you will enjoy a particular switch, it will give you a good idea on how the Cherry MX switches feel. I had no clue that I loved linear switches until I tried them on a switch tester. Then I bought a Cherry G80-11900, and I really loved the Cherry MX Black switches on it.

Cherry MX keyboards are so much cheaper than Topre boards. You should give them a try before spending a lot of money on a Topre board (and believe me, they cost a lot).

(Im just starting here, not 'pro', but here is my 2-cents).

I had exactly the same starting point when I got into mechanical keyboards. I have to say that for the closest feel to rubber dome I would give it to:
- Alps SKCM White Damped
- SteelSeries QS1
- Cherry MX Black (vintage)

M800 will give you smoothest transition from rubberdome - its quite good. However you will soon discover that keycaps has a major role in the feel of the keyboard. After that you should look into upgrade to ALPS / Cherry with PBT keycaps for a trully great feeling.

I had CM Storm Novatouch and I sold it twice - for me it was a bit to "strange" and didnt gave me that "wow" feeling I was hopping for.

I think choosing keyboard is a journey - like wine / beer - your taste and preference will evolve with time. So I suggest getting used vintage board and give it a go - maybe restoring it a bit, maybe replacing keycaps for better ones. This way you will learn what you looking for.

Intriguing topic. I could write a lot about this. But I'm on my iPhone. So, um, over to you autocorrect! "and the other day and I have to be a good day to be a good one and only one who is the best of luck to all the time to get a new…"

idbeholdME wrote: What switch feels the most like dome switches / chiclet?

Do you want a switch with short travel like a chiclet, or one with regular travel (~4mm) like "regular" keyboards?
I'm not very interested in keyboards with short travel, so I can't really recommend anything in that regard, I just know that there is the G84 series from cherry, although I don't know what keyrollover they have and a M800 from Steelseries.

If you're looking for full travel switches, the closest you'll get is probably topre, but those boards are also quite expensive. I'd recommend to get the CM-Switch Tester, as it offers the most common Cherry MX-Switches as well as a Topre-Switch. The differences are huge and if you've never experienced it, it is hard to describe. Also importing a Topre keyboard isn't a huge problem and due to their great build quality they should get to you unharmed, no matter how long the journey of the parcel was.

If you want it cheap and got some time to spare, you may want to take a look at chyros review, although I don't think that linear Alps feel a lot like Rubberdomes, it's worth a shot.

if i where in your shoes i would go with mx-reds or with Gateron reds if that saves you $$.
i'm personally not a gamer and currently i'm typing on a 45g topre Leopold FC660C i went with this board because my Leopold FC660M with mx-clear switches felt to heavy after a couple of weeks typing for 8hours. So going with mx blacks wouldn't be my first choice. But if you feel light presses could be an issue than by all means go with black just be warned
i had a friend of mine loan me a couple of his keyboards and i got to tryout pretty much every cherry switch out there.
And tried the CM-novaTouch. the feel of the NovaTouch is totally different then other Topre boards and not my first choice if your not planning to mod the hell out of it
To bad you want to stick to the same feel as rubber domes or chiclet keyboard because my first recommendation would be go with browns right in the middel of the road..

Btw you could also check out youtube channel LiquidEvelGaming he has a couple of nice reviews/overviews of keyboards and he's a gamer to

Personally i love topre because their so smooth and the tactile bump is right at the top / beginning of the key press.
Good luck mate..not an easy proces but we have all bin there

BTW you mentioned your concern in regards to the switch being to light and accidental key presses.
well i typed on reds and the first couple of days i had the same problem but after that i adopted only problem i had with reds was the lack of tactile feeling..

To sum up i would go with reds perhaps you could tryout a board and return it in time? or buy a cheap board second hand?

Sankart wrote: Do you want a switch with short travel like a chiclet, or one with regular travel (~4mm) like "regular" keyboards?

OK, I should specify. Regular travel is preferable.

Sankart wrote: Also importing a Topre keyboard isn't a huge problem and due to their great build quality they should get to you unharmed, no matter how long the journey of the parcel was.

I'm not worried about that, but the shipping costs are quite high..

Anyway, I've looked at the Topre Type Heaven suggested earlier and that seemed good, but not easily available without paying much more than the keyboard is. After all, what I'm looking for is a keyboard with higer key rollover and most similar feel to rubber domes e.g. what I've been using pretty much my entire life.

Again, Topre would probably be ideal but Cherry is at a much more acceptable pricepoint and somewhat available where I live.

It'd probably be best if I put here the main 2 options I have available:

SteelSeries 6gv2 - black switches, my favorite so far because as I said, I'm used to always bottoming out from standard keyboards so I THINK this will give me the most similar feel to what I'm using now. 6 key rollover but also comes with a PS/2 cable to allow full NKRO.

OR

Cherry MX-Board 3.0 - red switches, 14 key rollover but I hate the left shift button size + worried about the keys being too light to press / accidental misslicks.

It's mostly a question of 45 cN or 60 cN and I just can't decide .

Also, one of my criteria is for the keyboard to not look like it's from star trek (most dedicated gaming keyboards). No need for illumination, makro keys, multimedia keys etc.

TuxKey wrote: ........

Although I've never typed for so long in one session, I've never felt any king of fatigue or being tired on rubber domes even after gaming constantly for 8-10 hours, so I'm confident I would be able to handle the blacks .

I really think you should go and get a switch tester. Also, do you need ISO, or is ANSI ok as well?
I never tried those, but if I recall correctly the Logitech G810 and G410 (and the G910) are said to be not too far away from rubberdomes, but I'd need somebody to confirm that, as I'm not entierly sure.

My advice would be: don't try and get something that is similar to chiclet keyboards. They are horrible. Next, I would get a switch tester to see which switch I like.

There are so many guides about what you should look for when buying your first mechanical keyboard, and I get that the choices can be overwhelming, but just do some more reading and decide on what form factor you might like.

Once you know what switch you think you'd like, and what form factor, you can come back and post something like "need advice for first mkb, I'd like a tenkeyless with Cherry MX Black switches."

From all that I have tried (Alps, Cherry, Buckling Spring), I think the Cherry MX clear represents (and exceeds) the best qualities of standard office rubber-dome boards the closest. They have a good snappiness due to the tactile bump, and the springs provide cushioning towards the bottom without the mushiness of rubber-domes.

"Snappy" is probably the last word many of us would describe Cherry MX with, to be brutally honest xD .

Chyros wrote: "Snappy" is probably the last word many of us would describe Cherry MX with, to be brutally honest xD .

True, but rubber domes aren't exactly "snappy" either. And I think he might like O-rings to keep everything warm and fuzzy.

Chyros wrote: "Snappy" is probably the last word many of us would describe Cherry MX with, to be brutally honest xD .

Well, I mean they feel similar in how the rubber dome would collapse. "Snappy" may not be the best adjective.

fohat wrote:

Chyros wrote: "Snappy" is probably the last word many of us would describe Cherry MX with, to be brutally honest xD .

True, but rubber domes aren't exactly "snappy" either. And I think he might like O-rings to keep everything warm and fuzzy.

Also true, but do Cherry MX really feel like rubber domes? I wouldn't say so Oo .

I'd say the answer is obvious here: Topre. Either that or get a nice rubber dome keyboard like one of the higher-end dome-with-slider designs. I prefer many of them to Cherry MX brown, tbh.

Chyros wrote:

fohat wrote:

Chyros wrote: "Snappy" is probably the last word many of us would describe Cherry MX with, to be brutally honest xD .

True, but rubber domes aren't exactly "snappy" either. And I think he might like O-rings to keep everything warm and fuzzy.

Also true, but do Cherry MX really feel like rubber domes? I wouldn't say so Oo .

I'd say the answer is obvious here: Topre. Either that or get a nice rubber dome keyboard like one of the higher-end dome-with-slider designs. I prefer many of them to Cherry MX brown, tbh.

I thought he might be purposely avoiding rubber-domes. Cherry MX clear was the closest to having some of the qualities I actually like about them without being them that I could think of. It's what I ended up using for my workplace.

Cherry mx switches and their clones are inherently linear, but the "tactile" varieties of these synthesize tactility by grafting a bump onto the switch stem, and the "tactile/clicky" varieties add to this a clicker mechanism. They attempt to have the tactile bump or click coincide with the actuation point of the switch. Other switches incorporate a true tipping point such as the catastrophic collapse of a rubber dome (Topre) or buckling of a spring (IBM buckling spring).

Rather than trying to find a mechanical keyboard that feels like what you are accustomed to in the world of rubber domes and chicklets, try out a variety of switch types to find something that you may very well like much better.

Everyone has his own preferences, but I find that the best to worst ranking of the mechanical keyboard switch experience goes something like this:

IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) > Topre 55g > Topre 45g > IBM membrane buckling spring (Model M) > blue Alps > white Alps > brown Alps > Matias Click > Matias Quiet > Hi-Tek Space Invader > Gateron Yellow (light variety) > Gateron Black > Gateron Red > Cherry Red > Cherry Black > Cherry Green > Cherry Brown> Cherry Blue > Cherry Clear

There are others, some common, some exotic.

The only way to know what you will like is to try them for yourself. Your tastes will also likely change over time.

If you like Topre and you are into gaming, you might want to wait for the forthcoming Realforce keyboard:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/topre- ... 31961.html

It will have stems that are compatible with Cherry keycaps, RGB backlighting, and variable actuation distance.

Happy hunting!

And tried the CM-novaTouch. the feel of the NovaTouch is totally different then other Topre boards and not my first choice if your not planning to mod the hell out of it

Do you mean dental band mod+ lubing the stabs? Or is there something I missed to do?