deskthority

Probably the worst keyboard I've used in 30 years. Normally I have my ANSI TKL with Kailh brown switches attached but I don't carry it with me to meetings.
I used Lenovo laptops for years and was used to their keyboards, actually preferring their Fn Ctrl order.

Not only this HP ELITEBOOK keyboard has terrible feel causing typos just by touching it. The layout is also totally chaotic. Caps lock, Ctrl and ^ fn lock in between. Is it Shift or not?
Sometimes Windows or HP bloatware decide to help me with the access to the awesome function keys and turn fn lock off. (Who needs classic function keys...?)

Guess why i have that exclamation mark there? Hint: It was a hybrid meeting I was moderating.

Modern laptop keyboards are trash, all copying Apple. Companies are now run by lazy millenials who all copy Apple. They even mostly make crappy Apple-knockoff desktop chiclet keyboards now.

But hey, at least you still have a trackpoint.

1.5×0.5u up and down arrows ...
The arrows could have been full-sized in the same space if they had reduced the size of right Shift and numpad-0.

SK-8K wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2021, 00:44

Companies are now run by lazy millenials who all copy Apple. They even mostly make crappy Apple-knockoff desktop chiclet keyboards now.

Apple's own current chiclet keyboards are even crappy knock-offs of their earlier incarnations IMHO.

The problem is the designer's reasoning: The more functions cramped to the given space, the better. Maybe some users want dedicated keys for beginning and ending the call? Not my case.
I'd be just happy with an ANSI TKL layout, Fn right and meaningful functions on F-keys activated only with Fn key down. But maybe I'm weird.

Yes, TKL would have been perfect. But laptop manufacturers want to cater to "business customers" who'd need a numpad.

Findecanor wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2021, 21:17

Yes, TKL would have been perfect. But laptop manufacturers want to cater to "business customers" who'd need a numpad.

And that makes the keyboard VERY uncomfortable to use, as your arms end up both bent leftwards OR the monitor (i.e., the entire laptop) shifted right. Using those things (even if they had a good layout AND were good to type on, which are other problems entirely) quickly becomes a Sophie's choice: neck or shoulder pain?

As per the quality of the laptop keyboard itself... OP ain't the first to rant about it. I've mentioned more than once that laptops should ditch the keyboard altogether, traded away in favor of several USB ports — not one or two more, but many, so we can then plug in a real keyboard, a real mouse, a real numpad, etcetera.

Laptop keyboards are getting worse-and-worse.

It's not just a generational factor. Modern designers, especially at Apple, seem dominated by the phone/tablet mindset, in which keyboards aren't thought necessary. So they are an afterthought, and they use the minimal possible keyboard.

The ideal laptop to these people would be as thin as an iPhone, and the keyboard some kind of haptic overlay.

Thinkpads still have the best, most usable laptop keyboards. Even those Dell business-class notebooks have been going downhill, although they're probably better than the execrable XPS keyboards.

Apple has had to reverse direction somewhat, as their new laptops are being celebrated for returning to the ~2015 or so, pre-butterfly models. Apparently, there are quality floors that generate pushback even for Apple.

Aye. By all the shine on my year old M1 MacBook Air, I can vouch for Apple’s lately improved keyboards. For its thinness, it’s a decent piece of kit. If I’d typed like that on the previous generation: ‘d b fckd!

Naturally, I type as much on my HHKB hooked up to that Mac (always wirelessly, wires are for charging overnight) as I do directly on the clamshell itself. Much prefer the Topre feel and travel. But while I used to plop the wee keyboard down on top of my 15 inch 2013 MacBook Pro quite often, I never do that now. Even a light HHKB dominates the Air! Fair makes me appreciate how far Apple got with so little mass in its own board.

Muirium wrote: ↑

19 Nov 2021, 09:27

By all the shine on my year old M1 MacBook Air

All this tells me is that you've used it for at least 20 minutes

Never seen a keyboard shine up quicker than those things

My workplace issued me a Zbook 15 which has exactly the same keyboard. It feels very strange, the keys have lots of initial resistance and then they just give up completely and have no resistance at all. Just awful. The layout is also rather strange, I press 0/Insert on the numpad all the time when using the cursor keys.

In addition to this, the laptop itself (despite being sold as a "premium mobile workstation") is the worst pile of steaming excrements I have ever used. The Dreamcolor screen is nice and the mobile Xeon CPU is certainly powerful but oh man, this thing is hot, loud and buggy as hell.

My favourite part is the fan curve which has no hysteresis at all, so the fan constantly goes "UUUUUUuuuuuuuUUUUUUUuuuuuuu". I had to buy noise cancelling headphones just to stop me from going crazy.

Or start a process (like compressing large data) to switch it to permanent "UUUUUUUUUUUUUU"

SK-8K wrote: ↑

06 Nov 2021, 00:44

Modern laptop keyboards are trash, all copying Apple. Companies are now run by lazy millenials who all copy Apple. They even mostly make crappy Apple-knockoff desktop chiclet keyboards now.

But hey, at least you still have a trackpoint.

Wasn't that nasty arrow cluster pioneered by HP? I know Apple decided to use it for a bit (and wisely went back to a traditional one).

The middle scroll button for TrackPoints is essential IMO (for 360 pressure scrolling), without it scrolling becomes very annoying. The TouchStyk drivers may be able to map it to something else though.

Yeah, on my Dell XT2 I have to hit both the left and right mouse buttons to use middle-click, it's tricky to get it just right