Symbiosis? LOL!!!!

[7bit]

$50 gift certificate to everybody
who jumps off before it reaches 50 orders!

. http://www.pimpmykeyboard.com/deals/symbiosis/


Buy them cheaper here:

HONEYB/TKL/CADET
Price: $82


HONEYB/SPACE625/SPH
Price: $2


HONEYB/SPACE625/BLUE
Price: $2

Shipping is $7 no matter how many keys or kits you order!

[matt3o]

sorry what?! They made a custom legend for each key?!?!?!

[7bit]

PMK delayed my Round 5.


Now it is attacking me directly!


But I will strike back!!!

[matt3o]

how did they attack you? That is round 4, we are well over that

[7bit]

I was the first one, who posted a mockup with the Space Cadet keys and wanted to bring it in Round 6.


Does anyone know how much the cheapest shipping is from PMK?



HONEYB/NUMPAD/CADET
Price: $22
You save $2 against PMK!


More counter-attack-kits soon!

[matt3o]

oh you wanted to do round6?!

are the shifts still in the wrong row or did SP finally correct them?

anyway, you gotta speed up your GBs, really. I know this time it is mostly SP's fault, but still...

(shipping to EU is fucking expensive)

[7bit]

(shipping to EU is fucking expensive)

[Muirium]

Matteo: you forget about Round 5[a-z] which, naturally, includes a SPH remake among other things. He's smart to run it — although as usual the eternal order taking process is far from reasonable — but SP will definitely pull orders away from him.

Pity, because this Symbolics set is pad printed surely. Or the graphic is just pure wishful fancy, that SP can't be bothered telling the poor fools they can't actually manufacture.

PMK: the wisdom of the crowd. Anyone ever found a crowd that didn't act like cattle? I'd rather the wisdom of a craftsman, like we got with Granite.

[7bit]

At the PMK priceses I doubt they have the front printing.

So no front printing from me, but who knows.

[matt3o]

the set on PMK is all row 3 and all legends are double-shot.

[Muirium]

Does SP just publish people's proposals without checking them?

"Sorry guys, that thing you just ordered has like $40,000 of custom tooling fees. Would you like standard 7bit style legends instead?"

[matt3o]

You need to pass the "IC" phase now on PMK. The set got a lot of votes in the interest check so it upgraded to group buy.

Those legends are less expensive than custom ones ($25 instead of $50) and "all row 3" makes the set cheaper.

7bit is making a mistake imho trying to compete with that. We should instead team up and bring SA Retro to reality.

[Stabilized]

Urgh I didn't see that set up on the Round 5, don't do this to me 7bit, I told myself I didn't need them!

[7bit]

No mistake!

If they don't raise the prices too much from last time, it will still work out.

Also: This time there is no special tool for special keys to be paid for.

Just to remind everybody:
Round 4 brought 6.25 and 7 units space bars and Round 5 the 2 units row 1 Back Space, 3 keys that are available in that foolish Symbiosis-thing!

Urgh I didn't see that set up on the Round 5, don't do this to me 7bit, I told myself I didn't need them!

You didn't see that, because I've added those 3 kits to Round 5a just a few hours ago!

[matt3o]

Symbiosis IS ALL ROW 3!

[Stabilized]

Ah right, I didn't realise they were in direct reply to the Symbolics set on PMK, pardon me!

If you could use the same tools as the PMK buy and maintain your prices, I would much rather buy from you as the shipping/customs comes up much cheaper for someone living in the EU.

I think I will put in a hopeful order for now

[Stabilized]

Symbiosis IS ALL ROW 3!

But surely the new molds would be for the legends? This would mean they could use the existing molds for the profiles and just re-use the legends from the PMK GB?

[matt3o]

I believe that an angled layout with all those custom legends would be more expensive than 7bit thinks.

[7bit]

If at all, they will re-use my legends for the PMK GB, so I will know what went wrong and can make sure they get them right once Round 5a ships.


@matt3o: Yes, I know they are all row 3. So what?

Curved is better, so you get better stuff for lower prices and only a little more wait!

I believe that an angled layout with all those custom legends would be more expensive than 7bit thinks.

The price is quite OK, considering no legend fees.

If they take $25 per legend (as they did in recent buys), that would be just $650 for 26 legends.

This is just $8 for each one who has an order in the Round 5a group buy.
$1.33 per each kit in the Round 4 color-scheme ...
Peanuts!

[Halvar]

7bit is making a mistake imho trying to compete with that. We should instead team up and bring SA Retro to reality.

I agree. Running two similar GBs at the same time doesn't make sense.

[Muirium]

Same time? You must be new to the 7bit temporal vortex! 2015 is Round 5 (so I hope), 2016 is whatever else.

I'm not buying an all row 3 set. (The whole point of SA is the sculpted rows.) But is this thing really using custom doubleshot legends at a good price?

Because some of us want Greek and other alphabets, and that's news!

[matt3o]

@matt3o: Yes, I know they are all row 3. So what?

they are using 2 of your molds, not 3.

[facetsesame]

I've been in touch with Xblackdog and have warned him of the many pitfalls with SP and legends. I do wonder if SP have factored in all the necessary legend costs. Front pad print legends are not included in Symbiosis though.

I told him about APL legends in Round 6, though I had the idea that 7bit was planning to run IBM style APLs in Round 6, but it looks like the HONEY/APL was more of a joke...

For what little it's worth, as a relative newcomer he does seem to have been unaware of SPH. The poor research reflects the nature of an apparently casual interest check that went red hot. Initially he'd chosen the rather light GTG for the alphas until I alerted him to this and suggested he might want to use BFP and GD to make Symbiosis usable with SPH. Though colour obsessives will note use of WW white in Symbiosis rather than WV

In any case, so long as the legend tooling is made, I support getting it made right for future use! If all parties are prepared, it'd be darn nice to see them work together to get the best out of SP for these. I'm willing to contribute what I can.

[Muirium]

A new doubleshot legend works for all rows, does it? So this set's row 3 limitation doesn't affect our desires to use those tools for our own thing later?

[facetsesame]

A new doubleshot legend works for all rows, does it? So this set's row 3 limitation doesn't affect our desires to use those tools for our own thing later?

It seems it may be legend specific. On the subject of the bold hashbang:

It looks like they had to cut a new legend for Row 1 and they used a different machine.

[7bit]

@matt3o: Yes, I know they are all row 3. So what?

they are using 2 of your molds, not 3.

2 space bars and one row 1 Back Space key are 3!

It is a total of 15.25 units!!!
Compare this of just 5 units Diatec contributed (2.25 and 2.75 units SHIF T keys in row 3)!

[Muirium]

The only new sizes I care about at all are Row 4 Shifts! Come on, SA is still rough without them!


@Facet: The fact there are "different machines" that can turn a legend into OMG BOLD without anyone there realising… worrying.

[Halvar]

Same time? You must be new to the 7bit temporal vortex! 2015 is Round 5 (so I hope), 2016 is whatever else.

You have seen the first post and the sets in it and their names, have you?

[matt3o]

A new doubleshot legend works for all rows, does it? So this set's row 3 limitation doesn't affect our desires to use those tools for our own thing later?

no legends are bound to their row.

[Muirium]

Except for when they are. As Facet reminded me: SP screwed up our #!s when they remade them for row 1 (as requested in the first place). They went super bold.


@Halvar: Don't mistake Round 5a (or 5b as he also calls it… argh!) for Round 5. They're not currently in production. It's a separate thing. And subject to delays all over again. Firstly 7bit's rolling deadlines.