deskthority

Hey guys, a few days ago i watched a video presentation of the Roccat Sova in E3. As you may have guessed it made a big impression on me and i started digging up. It turned out that it will be launched in 2015 so since i do not have any ongoing projects (keyboard and non-keyboard related) i thought of giving it a try. My first thoughts were to make the case out of wood(my prefered material) and leave a hole where the keyboard should be so that i can then utilize a plate mount(no pcb, it will be hand-wired). From previous experience, wood makes a rather good surface for mouse, provided it is well sanded and finished. Also, i think it would be good looking. I've made a few sketches but i'm no artist, so i wouldnt feel comfortable uploading them.

Now, before i get down to the tricky parts, i would like your help to resolve the standard.

The Layout: i believe that the dimensions of the Sova's original layout are a must in order for the whole device to remain in a manageable size(i forgot to mention that i will not be using any of the sliding extentions roccat has installed in the sova). The problem is that even though i am ok with giving up the numpad and the Insert, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, I would like to retain the arrow keys and the Delete button.

The Plate: By reading the previous topics in the workshop, i concluded that an aluminium plate would be better for this one due to less weight than steel. But, i really suck at designing stuff on pc, which means that i will need your help on that. As for cutting it, i believe i can find a shop with a laser cutter or something able to cut the plate accurately in my city.

Now, to the complicated stuff.

Connectivity: I have absolutely no idea how to make it wireless and if it will have an acceptable response time. Will it utilize a Teensy which will ultimately connect to a Bluetooth transmitter, or is there something like an all-in-one for that? I should mention that it doesn't necessarily have to have usb ports for other devices and all that funky stuff of the Sova. Though it would be awesome to operate both wirelessly an by usb.

Extra Battery: Since there will be a ton of unused space in the case, i thought of adding something to make the wireless operation last longer.

Lastly, i would like to add leds because when the lights are off(very common for me and very frustrating with my current non-backlit keyboard) the keys should be visible.

Guess that is pretty much it. Big thanks to anyone who can help out.

Getting one of those lap desks could save you a lot of work. More flexible too.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/11047961558098225/

Yep, you are right but it is not only about using a keyboard when in bed or couch. I was already planning on building a custom mechanical keyboard but i saw the sova as an upgrade with more flexibility. Of course, i could wait to buy the real Sova, or the lapboard you mentioned, but where would the fun be in that? Why wouldn't everyone here buy keyboards instead of making them? I know this is hardly a project for keyboard newbies like myself but thats what they told me when i said i would build my own electric guitar and it did not make me quit.

I hope that you understand the reason i'm doing it, it is not to prove anything to anyone, just to learn a few things and have a good time in the process.

You can do whatever you want.

I just mentioned the lap desk because I wasn't sure how known it is that they exist.

Pics of the guitar, please.

Thanks, actually the lap desk seems pretty good but my current keyboard sucks and i dont use tablets so i would have to get one of those and then make a keyboard whick would be more comfy but a lot more $$.

Now for the guitar. It is something of an Explorer though i drew the outline by hand, it is mahogany with rosewood fretboard and a piece of olive wood on the headstock. Active EMG's and les paul-like controls(knobs and switch). So, It is a mixup of the things i considered best in the guitar world(at the time). The photo quality isn't the best but i hope you can make out something...

I agree would love to see pictures of the guitar. That's a project I once attempted a couple years ago, and quit when I ran out of funds, and subsequently lost motivation...

I personally am not a fan of this Roccat Sova thing at all, I find it is just way too freaking big, and I would rather something like Lowpoly posted and actually just stick my keyboard and mouse on top of that, so I could work in that setup when I wanted (but still have the option to move my keyboard around).

Whether I like the idea for myself or not, I say it sounds like a great project, and I am willing to help if I possibly can.

So I have been planning quite a big project this summer for wooden cases myself. In fact I am actually pretty close to beginning work on my prototypes myself! Wood is a wonderful material to build in, prototype in, and make cases or constructions out of. I agree with that all the way. How ever, make sure you do this yourself (by hand or with power tools) as machined wood designs are just cheating, and don't turn out nearly as well. Since you built a guitar I am going to assume you already know this though.

I would be happy to look over your poorly drawn designs. I myself, have non-existent CAD skills so I have to resort to pen and paper... which I also have poor drawing skills! For proof, check out some very random preliminary drawings of some wood case concepts I drew: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/grou ... -1020.html All the way at the bottom of that page (don't feel like figuring out how to perma-link a specific post). I also have another on the next page. So trust me, poorly drawn or not, I would love to try and interpret it. That thread might also prove very interesting to you as well. Its Matt3o's group build. Specifically, since you are looking for a type of TKL plate for your "key-table" Matt has designed a really superb layout with his "Elf-Board", aka "Robot-65". It has arrow keys, and even some of your nav keys! That could easily be incorporated into this design here. Hand wire the plate, and build a small "60% style" compartment around it! By 60% style, I mean something very very basic similar to a Poker case. Where it is just a box basically (possibly with a small incline). That would be easiest to implement into this table.

ALSO ironically, a "sister" project I am working on along side my wood cases is for a type of wireless slightly sub-60% keyboard. It is definitely not something, that in itself could be incorporated here, but it very well could provide some very useful insight and ideas for your project. As soon as I get a plate in the mail, and build my prototype, I plan to open a workshop thread for "Keyboard Carpentry", so you can see and discuss any of my progress if you would like. The wireless project will probably be posted in a few weeks or something like that as well.

Something else I wanted to mention, I would really work on the layout of that Roccat desk thing. I am not sure how much I like how the keyboard is all the way to the left, with that massive trackpad (that is what that is right?) on the right. If you rest that on your legs or what ever, that seems pretty unbalanced. Also something like Apple's Magic Trackpad, might be a much more manageable size for this type of project. That or if you really did like the size, or wanted something more controllable, you could try to implement something like a Wacom drawing tablet. The ones they make now a days also include touch and gesture control, so you don't have to use the pen if you don't wish.

Finally, back lighting... Personally, I hate it. I think it looks just generally stupid. A vast majority of my keycaps don't even have backlight supporting legends in the fist place, meaning it would only just barely illuminate enough so I could see the key. Since I touch type, I also don't find myself needing the back light. So for me, I like to reuse something (I think) Matt3o said, which was that adding backlight to a keyboard is like adding neon to a car...

BUT if you are still so inclined to adding LEDs, you have some options I guess? If you are looking to handwire, well you don't really have many options. Its totally do able but the amount of time and effort spent on it, would be much better spent, learning a type of CAD software, and then designing and fabricating a PCB that supports LEDs...

No clue if this essay of jumbled nonsense has helped you even in the slightest, but I will say that I and many many more talented and experienced people then I are happy to help you with this project. Well actually I don't want to speak for anyone else, because technically for all we know this is just an episode of the Twilight Zone, and you and I are now the last 2 people on earth, since Lowpoly was just transported to another planet by your home made electric guitar... You never know these things.

EDIT: Beautiful guitar by the way. What types of hardware are you using? Pickups?
EDIT2: The type of 60% Poker case I was talking about implementing into your design was something similar to what Hermith just did over here: http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/75-s ... t8304.html. Nothing super fancy, but will look nice, and support your keyboard and give full minimalist access to your switches (the most important part).
EDIT3: There are also a bunch of different methods for doing wireless. In the project I am working on is using a very tiny and inflexible (feature wise, of course) controller that goes over 2.4GHz, not actually bluetooth. Either I or someone else could list the otherways of implementing bluetooth. There are bluetooth "cubes" that have batteries and transmit keyboard signals, and other things that would probably interest you more.
EDIT4: Don't you just love editing your post?
EDIT5: I also now realize that the section on the right is actually a mouse pad I think, not a massive freaking trackpad. In that case, one major tip I can give, is MAKE SURE that the mousepad you use is not only highquality, but it is REPLACEABLE! You also don't want to track your mouse around on the bare wood. It might work fine, but trust me, in the end after a lot of use it will wind up dented, scuffed, and no where near as pretty. Especially if you "game". Also have you considered using trackballs? While they aren't for everyone of course, a Trackball would be a hell of a lot easier to install here, and (in my humble opinion) are a million times greater then a mouse

Whoa, thanks a lot @pyrelink. Only to think that you would take the time to write all this...

To begin with, i'll search the other options you mentioned to see if something can be altered in the design. As for the wood, yes it is indeed a great material and the best part of it is the one you said "The handmade ones are by far better than the machined ones in quality and beauty". Furthermore, you just succeded in encouraging me to post hand drawings.

The thing in the right side of the Sova is not a trackpad though. It is a mousepad that can slide, if need be, to the right for more space, which i personally think is not needed. As for the balance, i can't say for sure but i believe that it pretty good because the whole device has a battery pack in the right side which will probably counter the weight of the keyboard on the left.

All in all, i would be glad to see what you come up with your own projects

And thanks again for the insight.

You might as well do what I am thinking of making into a product - a keyboard with a laptop stuck under it - the laptop being displayless. You could probably find a friend who has a laptop w/ a busted monitor, and you'll find them on ebay for cheap. But you can just put that unden the KB and then get this: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-be ... ansmitter/

Wireless screen laptop.

Nice guitar! You should have the right skill set.

Also, integrate a cup holder.

lowpoly wrote: Nice guitar! You should have the right skill set.

Also, integrate a cup holder.

Hell yeah, totally gonna have one on my thing.

Post by DerpyDash_xAD » 8 minutes ago
You might as well do what I am thinking of making into a product - a keyboard with a laptop stuck under it - the laptop being displayless. You could probably find a friend who has a laptop w/ a busted monitor, and you'll find them on ebay for cheap. But you can just put that unden the KB and then get this: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-be ... ansmitter/

Wireless screen laptop.

nice project but i 'm not a fan of laptop performance vs a desktop's one. Thanks anyway...

Post by lowpoly » 4 minutes ago
Nice guitar! You should have the right skill set.

Also, integrate a cup holder.

Thanks man...

Haha, yes, i thought of the cup holder when i saw the lap desk.

EDIT: Beautiful guitar by the way. What types of hardware are you using? Pickups?

Thank you. The bridge, the tailpiece and the tuners are from Schaller(i don't really remember the code names...) the pickups are EMG actives, the 81 and 85 i think, and the nut is artificial bone by Tusq.

Also have you considered using trackballs?

Great idea, i have never used one but always loved the way they look. Is there any chance i could find and integrate one in this project?

Well you could use an alienware

DerpyDash_xAD wrote: Well you could use an alienware

yes, but i still would prefer a desktop, just personal preference...

So, at pyrelink's suggestion i searched the whole topic of the group build. The only layout i found which is what i dreamt of is this, without the F rows:
Now, will i have to make my own file for the plate cutout(and if so which program do you propose to use?), or is there someone who has it already? I do suck in designing stuff on pc so you're doing me a big favor...

Also, at pyrelink's request i will start uploading my sketches of the whole thing.

Split the space bar and go for an fn layer.

DerpyDash_xAD wrote: Split the space bar and go for an fn layer.

Thought of that at first but then realised that i have never used the right Alt so probably the Fn button will replace it.

So, my first drawing is awful so i'll begin with the second one. Just a basic drawing of the position of the plate as well as the side of the case(the latter is rather ambitious even after a lot of hours of sanding, but i can still hope). Also, i thought the rear corners should be rounded to avoid them cracking accidentally if they hit a wall or something because the case will be really thin at that spot.

EDIT: the dimensions are just to show the aproximate size of the components, the plate is measured from my current keyboard by adding half a cm at each side of the main part.

Dude that is an amazing drawing! Like I'd hire you as a sketcher if I wanted mockups done lol

Thanks but it has more to do with measuring, geometry and using a ruler, rather my skill at making sketches,if i have any...

Most still would not succed to that level. You did it very cleanly, very well. I doubt anyone on here would dissagre that you did a very good job. It is 100% informative, easy to read, easy to understand.

Building the case might not be that hard after all. I am most likely going to use birch plywood. In the sketch below i tried to show how the pieces would connect as well as be shaped to the final stage. At first i tried with 12mm thick but it seems too bulky with very limited space inside and probably too heavy. So, next was 9mm which seems much better. I don't think it could go much thiner because it would be really unstable and hard to mount the plate successfully.

Is that the left or the right side?

lowpoly wrote: Is that the left or the right side?

The left, the keyboard will be on the tallest side, because i will mostly be using it on my desk and i really like the keyboard to be inclined. I don't think it would make much difference for using it on my lap, but if it is uncomfy afterwards, i will add some removable pillows or something. That way, it will be usable on the desk and the couch or bed.

At first i thought it was clear which side it was, that's why i didn't mention it, but after your comment i realised it could be both ways...

I thought it was the left side, but for lap use the incline should probably the other way round. Or pillows, like you said.

Today i tried my luck with computer designing and i made a plate cutout blueprint as well as a modification to the layout to show how it will look in the end. So, here goes:
Now, the cutout is not really ready because i noticed while scrolling through the files i used of each key that they have slight differences, which means that the switches will probably not fit. Also, i don't know how ISO Return keycaps are positioned, so i just used a Backspace slot sideways for the Return.
Can anyone help and send me the accurate dimensions for the holes?

JohnGR wrote: So, at pyrelink's suggestion i searched the whole topic of the group build. The only layout i found which is what i dreamt of is this, without the F rows:

If you are not having any function keys, maybe you could use the Red Scarf II PCB which will be available in an upcoming GB. It will have three unused columns of keys to the right, but you will have a mouse pad there. I can see a problem if the plywood is too thick though. I thought you were going to use a metal top and bottom like the Sova.
Red Scarf has a modified version of Hasu's TMK firmware with support for backlighting.

JohnGR wrote: Now, will i have to make my own file for the plate cutout(and if so which program do you propose to use?), or is there someone who has it already? I do suck in designing stuff on pc so you're doing me a big favor...

I use QCad and cut and paste from existing plate designs that are available. I use one drawing layer for the plate cutout and another layer for the key outline but you will quickly learn how to use different reference points when copying and pasting.
QCad outputs DXF which is a common CAD format that can then be imported into most CAD and vector drawing programs such as Inkscape.
You could reuse the Phantom plate design for ISO and modify it.

BTW. The switch for the ISO Return key is in the centre of the 1.25u×2u rectangle that fits within its area. All stabilised keys except the Space bar has the same width of stabilisers as 2u keys such as Backspace. If you are using Cherry stabilisers and a PCB then you must be certain that there is no component on the top of the PCB where the stabilising wire goes.
If you are using Costar stabilisers, then the wire must be on the same side as the switch's diode opening.

I think I'll pass on the pcb on my first build, it will only be an extra cost(how much is it really?) and the hand wiring will be more of an experience. Thanks anyway.

Also, thanks for the gr8 tips on plate designing.


Another subject I'd like your opinion on, is where to buy the switches and the keycaps. Is anyone here providing them or... I live in Greece, so what's the best option?

So, I updated the layout and replaced the right Ctrl key which was 1x1.75 with a normal 1x1.25 beacause i don't think i'll be able to find a 1x1.75 Ctrl keycap.(if i end up using printed and not blank keycaps)
Next, i made a decent plate cutout drawing using QCAD and an extremely detailed and useful compilation of phantom plates designs in dxf that Findecanor uploaded on a previous topic. I cant upload it directly so pm me or reply here if you want it.

Still waiting for someone to suggest about switches and keycaps(i'm a total noob here, and i haven't ordered/bought any before so i lost it in the marketplace sub-forum)... Thanks in advance