ID this IBM keyboard

[dorkvader]

I received an IBM keyboard in the mail from ebay a while back. and did some looking into what it is. It's a pretty interesting item, so I wanted to see what the IBM guys here thought of it.

If you know what it is right away, that's great! and I'll post my write-up faster.

Here's the first picture:

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When we're done, I'll link my photo album of it for anyone interested. There are some other cool things you can do with this keyboard that I will also share.

[rindorbrot]

Does this GH key mean it uses MX-compatible keys?

[dorkvader]

Does this GH key mean it uses MX-compatible keys?

Yes. The keys are MX compatible.

[smknjoe]

Is it some type of model F?

[Muirium]

The silver logo certainly looks a lot like my Model F, but without the Personal Computer legend beneath IBM in the square, and at the right instead of left of the keyboard. Also the square's a good bit off centre in its hole I see.

Everything south of that and we're into strange country…

[dorkvader]

Is it some type of model F?

Not a model F. The switches are compatible with that cherry MX keycap I have on it.

I know the badge is a little off center, but it is legitimate, just well used.

[webwit]

Do the switches look like this?

[Peter]

KXN5-C251 ?
Pictures here : http://minus.com/mCherryKeyboard

Or some other Cherry-US manufactured board, they have been spotted with IBM-logos ..

You should check if it has -The Crystal- ..
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39985.0

[dorkvader]

KXN5-C251 ?
Pictures here : http://minus.com/mCherryKeyboard

Or some other Cherry-US manufactured board, they have been spotted with IBM-logos ..

You should check if it has -The Crystal- ..
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39985.0

Good call on Cherry! There are certainly old switches that can take a cherry keycap. Sadly, this keyboard is older than cherryMX.

But this is indeed a board with cherry switches and IBM branding.

I was going to save this for later, but I was not aware of any other cherry keyboards with IBM logos. Do you have more info on this?

About the crystal: no such luck.

Do the switches look like this?

The switches look like this:


I would also like to note that you can indeed see the LED in the first picutre.

[Peter]

It's a 6Mhz crystal, that is 50% better ..



EDIT :

I was going to save this for later, but I was not aware of any other cherry keyboards with IBM logos.
Do you have more info on this?

I remember some threads about it on GH, -unknown IBM- or something ..

[webwit]

Is it IBM USA or one of those wacko IBM Chinese/Japanese keyboards?

In any case, for god's sake, you can't fuck with opposing forces of the Universe like that. This messes with the fabric of space. Anything can happen.

[Parak]

Pfft, there's already IBM + Alps, IBM + Honeywell, IBM + Topre (or their predecessor) - it was only inevitable that there would be an IBM + Cherry.

Of course, all are aberrations that should not exist in lieu of the Two True Switches Of IBM.

[dorkvader]

Pfft, there's already IBM + Alps, IBM + Honeywell, IBM + Topre (or their predecessor) - it was only inevitable that there would be an IBM + Cherry.

Of course, all are aberrations that should not exist in lieu of the Two True Switches Of IBM.

Yes, but everyone knows true IBM potentiometers are made in Japan (not mexico)

(Image unrelated to this keyboard)

Is it IBM USA or one of those wacko IBM Chinese/Japanese keyboards?

I don't know how to determine this, but I suspect it was made in IL or wherever cherry manufactured their boards in the early to mid 1980's.

Peter: the switches are one of the cherry M8-series.

Webwit: you have a later version of this keyboard with the same layout and functionality.

[Parak]

Yes, but everyone knows true IBM potentiometers are made in Japan (not mexico)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/NX8Px4gh.jpg

[Peter]

http://brutman.com/IBM_LPFK/IBM_LPFK.html

[dorkvader]

Correct! It is indeed an IBM LPFK. The one you linked appears to be the newer version with domes (like the one webwit has) however, mine is the older version for the IBM 5085/5083 CAD / graphics terminals.

Webwit's http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_misc/lpfk4.jpg

One reason why the "space unsaver" model F's don't need tenkeys is because you were supposed to use them with a LPFK.

There exists linux code to run conways game of life on it, or a binary clock.

You can tell the difference somewhat because mine has a wider distance from the edge of the keys to the edge of the case.

I wan't able to find much info on this one specifically, but unigraphics has been producing LPFK's for a while. The IBM dials is part of the same system.

I was able to find a picture of one that looks like it's from beam spring era IBM, but I don't know what switches it could have.

Here's the images I have in my imgur album. Please enjoy them. I have more pictures that I'll remember to update one of these days.

Controller Box:
http://imgur.com/a/XqcUR
(check out that old AMD chip!)

Dials:
http://imgur.com/a/G4e1P
(these retailed for almost $1000)

Unsaver KB:
http://imgur.com/a/tijZ1
(this has one of the largest controller PCB's in a model F I've ever seen)

LPFK
http://imgur.com/a/odZst
(I will probably put spare cherry keycaps on it and use it as a clock.)

[webwit]

Very nice version!

[Peter]

Isn't this WIKI-material ?

http://www.computerhistory.org/collecti ... /102657027

[dorkvader]

Keep in mind the computerhistory page lists the 5085 and the (later) IBM RT. I think those prototopre IBM boards go with the IBM RT cad stations. As youc an see in the picture, the keyboard is not the "unsaver" that goes with the 5085/5083 system, though the dials, lpfk (I cant tell which version) and tablet are shown.

Here's the "prototopre" keyboard for the IBM RT:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=566 ... 1#msg87331

I think you could adapt them to 5085 somehow, but my controllerbox does not have a plug in for the RT connector (It does have a plug for the KB as well as many serial devices). There may have been a plug on the back of the terminal for it.

You can add whatever you want to the wiki, but I will be doing a nicer writeup of the IBM CAD stuff I researched for GH and DT "real soon now".

Interestingly enough, my picture of the keyboard with my arm in the way is one of the early results for a google image search for IBM 5083. Even earlier for 5085.
http://i.imm.io/164zJ.jpeg

[REVENGE]

Brace for thread necro impact, but I have a few questions about the peripheral system:
1. Are the 6010 series dials built to the same level of quality as the 50XX series? They say "Made in Japan", but I've not seen inside one of those.
2. Has anyone adapted / converted the system for use with modern PCs?

This all came about because I ran across this PFK on eBay today: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadam-Inc-Divis ... 1138910494
I initially thought it was just a copy of the IBM PFK, but now I'm thinking it could also be a Cherry product on the inside...

And the mystery deepens for the SGI PFK and dial set: http://www.hardware-reselling.de/Produc ... _box.shtml

EDIT: Actually, safe bet is... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_box

[dorkvader]

Brace for thread necro impact, but I have a few questions about the peripheral system:
1. Are the 6010 series dials built to the same level of quality as the 50XX series? They say "Made in Japan", but I've not seen inside one of those.
2. Has anyone adapted / converted the system for use with modern PCs?

This all came about because I ran across this PFK on eBay today: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadam-Inc-Divis ... 1138910494
I initially thought it was just a copy of the IBM PFK, but now I'm thinking it could also be a Cherry product on the inside...

And the mystery deepens for the SGI PFK and dial set: http://www.hardware-reselling.de/Produc ... _box.shtml

EDIT: Actually, safe bet is... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_box

Hey sorry I didn't see this.

1. the only other pots used in IBM dials that I am aware of were "made in Medixo" Parak has them but I haven't seen pics. Mine were made in japan by "japan servo" who also made motors I guess.

The SGI dials used dynaher pots which area really nice. My old roommate's dad works for them, so I asked a few questions.

Both of these were straight copies of unigraphics equipment. The first LPFK (unigraphics) in the 1970's used lamps! they were notoriously unreliable. HP dials have 3 rows of 3 which makes more sense to me, bu they are lower quality.

LPFK's were made by a large number of people for different systems. Haata brought some NIB HP ones to keycon to give out. They had maxi switch domes and looked a lot like the one in the eBay link.

2. yes, it outputs standard serial and is pretty easy to get to work. i want to teensy-convert it and make a binary clock.
http://brutman.com/IBM_LPFK/IBM_LPFK.html
The rest of the system will be harder. Dials use RS232 as well and shouldnt be too hard, but the KB (104-key unsaver, tenkey is unnecessary when you have LPFK) has 2 outputs probably 1 serial and 1 parallel? maybe? I havent looked at them in depth, but it's gonna be tough. They aren't on kbdbabel or elsewhere.

I do have a controller box though.