deskthority

ALPS or not and if yes, what type?

Looks like Alps to me. Some people claim without label usually means complicated and some people claim that you cannot tell without opening the switch.

Some alps clone. Have you tryed desoldering the switch and looking on the bottom for a manufacturer? That happened with the Aruz switch I discovered. Seems like clone manufactures were coping every detail of the shell casing including the style of the logo.

Care to share why you think it's a clone?

There's no ALPS logo on the switch and I haven't tried desoldering one yet.

There are a lot of slightly different Alps switch cases, but I think the best rule of thumb (possibly not perfect) is to check the tabs on the sides: two big ones on complicated, four small ones on simplified.

Complicated:



Simplified:

Icarium wrote:Care to share why you think it's a clone?

It looks like something is stamped in the slider. Alps never had that.

486 wrote:

Icarium wrote:Care to share why you think it's a clone?

It looks like something is stamped in the slider. Alps never had that.

Yes they did:
Also, Fukka clones are reported to have had the Alps logo on, but mine certainly don't (TP3). They do have the same long side tabs as complicated switches – Fukkas look (nearly?) identical to complicated switches from the outside.

The switch in the OP is a Simplified Type II (e.g. XM) or a Type IV. They're the ones with the four small tabs. (I forget what Type III looked like — the pictures died along with the GH wiki, while I have Types I, II and IV myself.)

The only way to tell Type II from IV is to open the switch, and they're a real headache to reassemble (I'd be more tempted to take some better photos of the Type IV switch, but it was a real pain to get it back together last time, and the GH wiki had better photos at the time anyway ;-) Since people assume that four small tabs == XM, I don't know how many Type IV keyboards are mistaken for being Type II, or whether Type IV was just really rare.

webwit wrote:There are a lot of slightly different Alps switch cases, but I think the best rule of thumb (possibly not perfect) is to check the tabs on the sides: two big ones on complicated, four small ones on simplified.

Complicated:



Simplified:

That IBM board, what model is it? And i guess they are super rare

IBM JX Keyboard: http://park8.wakwak.com/~kaineko2/keybo ... 825_2.html

Although webwit's looks like a wired version: http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_japan/ibm_jx/

IBM JX keyboards.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_JX_Keyboards

http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_japan/ibm_jx/

You wear them like this:



720KB should be enough for anyone.

002 wrote:IBM JX Keyboard: http://park8.wakwak.com/~kaineko2/keybo ... 825_2.html

Although webwit's looks like a wired version: http://webwit.nl/input/ibm_japan/ibm_jx/

Damn, I *need* that black one.

Mine has both wire and battery/optical transmitters.

Oh yours is wireless as well?!

Check the wiki entry I posted above. You can see it here, two IR thingies in the middle, cable to the right:

Yep gotcha - do you know if it is still working?

Hmm, I don't think I ever plugged it in

Give me one!!!!!!

Lurk on the keyboard section of Yahoo Auctions Japan with an international auction service. That's how I got my Japanese IBM keyboards. Be prepared to pay for the keyboard, the auction service, the payment provider, the international shipping, the VAT and import costs.

The complicated green Alps are very nice. They are like Cherry MX Red switches, but I consider them a little bit better.

OK, here you go:
Type II ("XM") and IV are completely identical from the outside — you have to open the switch to differentiate them. I don't have a complicated switch to hand to measure it in comparison to Type I, but I have no good reason to believe that they differ, and again, you have to open the switch to differentiate them.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:

486 wrote:

Icarium wrote:Care to share why you think it's a clone?

It looks like something is stamped in the slider. Alps never had that.

Yes they did:

Dell AT102W switch.jpg

Also, Fukka clones are reported to have had the Alps logo on, but mine certainly don't (TP3). They do have the same long side tabs as complicated switches – Fukkas look (nearly?) identical to complicated switches from the outside.

The switch in the OP is a Simplified Type II (e.g. XM) or a Type IV. They're the ones with the four small tabs. (I forget what Type III looked like — the pictures died along with the GH wiki, while I have Types I, II and IV myself.)

The only way to tell Type II from IV is to open the switch, and they're a real headache to reassemble (I'd be more tempted to take some better photos of the Type IV switch, but it was a real pain to get it back together last time, and the GH wiki had better photos at the time anyway Since people assume that four small tabs == XM, I don't know how many Type IV keyboards are mistaken for being Type II, or whether Type IV was just really rare.

Interesting, I have seen many an Alps board but none I had ever seen until now had anything printed in the slider.
If these are stamped on similfied, that might explain it. I have never owned a Fukka Alps board, I deal in mostly the original Alps stuff 80's-90s.

Type II and IV simplified both have a number stamped into the slider. The Dell AT101/102W (above) uses complicated black switches though, i.e. some complicated switches have numbers stamped on the slider as well.

My new theory is that Types II and IV are both Xiang Min ("XM") switches, and perhaps the Type IV came first, as XMs are current, and my old XT/AT board is Type IV. I'm considering renaming them XM wide leaf and XM narrow leaf. Matias confirms that Fukkas ARE real – Forward Electronics is what was Alps Taiwan. This is why I don't use "Fukka" unless I'm certain that they were made after this point in time. However, it may be the case that Alps only made one simplified design, and that's it. In which case, we'd have: Alps complicated, Alps simplified (includes Fukka), XM wide leaf, XM click leaf. Matias thinks Type III was similar to XM, so it could be another XM switch. Need to check archive.org copy of GH Alps wiki to check the photos.

webwit wrote:Lurk on the keyboard section of Yahoo Auctions Japan with an international auction service. That's how I got my Japanese IBM keyboards. Be prepared to pay for the keyboard, the auction service, the payment provider, the international shipping, the VAT and import costs.

The complicated green Alps are very nice. They are like Cherry MX Red switches, but I consider them a little bit better.

That is way to complicated

✱✱✱ CORRECTIONS TO ALL OF THE ABOVE ✱✱✱

For anyone a) reading this page in the future (hi future people!) and b) actually reading this far down past all the misinformation above, this is the new recognition chart:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Z_mount_recognition

Usually when a brave Alps warrior thinks he has covered it, a new vortex opens up between the inter-dimensional spaces, and ruins it all with a new set of endless variety.

That is, of course, why wikis are editable. The above page is not complete; it is simply where everyone should be depositing their information.

Is there anything on the wiki about the smaller half-alps like on the PC Convertible's keyboard?

If there is, it's well hidden.

Edit 2013-10-21: [wiki]Alps CM compact[/wiki]

Well, there we go. Half-Saint has confirmed to me that the keyboard has "APC" written on it, so that's not a Xiang Min ("XM") switch, but most likely a [wiki]Taiwan Tai-Hao APC series[/wiki] switch. In all other cases I've seen, they're numbered NW:A## in a small, narrow face. This is an interesting example with NW:##A numbering — yet the font is the same.

It would be interesting one day to see what internals it's got, in particular whether it has the old steel click leaf, or the newer copper one.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:For anyone a) reading this page in the future (hi future people!)

Hey, I just read this now. That means I'm a "future person!" Awesome.

Except... what I wrote a couple seconds ago is now in the past. Damn it. You can never get ahead, can you.

I predict that user mr_a500 will post in the previous post something about a future person.
So he will type ahead of me, but in the future