model M screw mod technique

zrrion · 14 Dec 2021, 19:40

just saw this ebay listing with for a screw modded model M. As I understand it a screw mod is similar to a bolt mod except after you have removed the rivets and clipped off the remaining plastic posts you make a much smaller pilot hole than you would with a bolt mod and use a screw that uses the threads to grab the plastic and hold everything together so that you don't have to mess with nuts and washers like you would on a bolt mod.

However, in this listing the rivets don't appear to have been removed at all which would mean the remaining plastic posts and for sure aren't removed either and the assembly wasn't opened at all.

Is this a viable method for screw modding? If it is that sounds like a pretty good deal since you don't have to open the assembly. It's probably fine if you only need to fix a single rivet or two, but if the screws are screwed into the rivet/post instead of a more solid part of the case I worry that this mod wouldn't be especially permanent. The posts that these screws are screwed into aren't very large so IDK how well a screw would actually be able to grab onto one of these. If the screws are actually long enough to go through the post and into the frame body proper that could work I suppose but I have no information on how this seller actually did the mod so I can't really evaluate it's effectiveness. Hopefully someone with more experience screw modding can shed some light on the matter.

digital_matthew · 14 Dec 2021, 21:13

I've done a few screw mods. When done correctly it can be very sturdy, but probably not as strong as a bolt mod. It's my go-to repair for a barrel assembly that's missing some rivets. If almost all rivets are gone, a flipper needs repositioning, or a membrane needs replacing I do a bolt mod. This screw mod looks weird, as it looks like the screws are going through the rivets which kind of defeats the purpose. If the rivet is missing I drill a pilot hole and install the screw and washer.

jsheradin · 15 Dec 2021, 00:32

It's tough to tell from the photos but it looks like the seller did use some very small diameter screws and went through the posts. I'd say it would work but I'd imagine they would have a hard time bracing against the plate. Not clipping off the stud means you're using the brittle melted plastic as a washer which would probably loosen up/fall out over time.

A traditional screw mod is stronger than factory, would last virtually forever, and wouldn't be a ton more work than what that seller did. It would also give you a good chance to clean out all the junk that made its way into the barrel plate.

"Proper" screw mod (or at least what I typically do):

Spoiler:

zrrion · 15 Dec 2021, 01:12

yeah, your method is exactly what I was thinking when I made the post.

digital_matthew · 15 Dec 2021, 02:12

Nice. Could you tell me what tool you use to clip off the rivets? I don't like using a razor.

raoulduke-esq · 15 Dec 2021, 02:20

digital_matthew wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 02:12 Nice. Could you tell me what tool you use to clip off the rivets? I don't like using a razor.

Mine were so buggered up they popped off with the lightest pressure from a plastic spudger. I've seen hammer and chisel but don't recommend that because you'll damage your plate more likely than not. I had one that was tough so I used a razor in the kind of holder that's made for scraping stickers off a window, not a box cutter style, so it's safer for both my hands and the backplate.

jsheradin · 15 Dec 2021, 02:30

digital_matthew wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 02:12 Nice. Could you tell me what tool you use to clip off the rivets? I don't like using a razor.

Flush cutters: Hakko-CHP-170
Drill bit: 1.5mm
Screws: 1/4" No. 2

Spoiler:

digital_matthew · 15 Dec 2021, 04:12

Awesome. Thanks!

Jacobalbertus1 · 15 Dec 2021, 05:36

HI this is my listing and no I don't remove the rivets if they don't need it as I used a soldering iron and just screw into it with that as if I do it this way it keeps the tensioning 100% right and original standers and the rivets act as a washer to an extent, its extremely effective IMHO gets the job done quickly add the included washers basically and keeps the tenoning just right for your concerns i use 8 and 10 MM screws fo this so they go thru the top sometimes for an extra bite down i have not had any problems with this what so ever

zrrion · 15 Dec 2021, 06:54

I am begging you to proofread your posts. That's a single run on that should be like 6 actual sentences.
Use line breaks too, not just periods. See how this point is more distinct because it is on a new line? I'm going to use a few more line breaks now just for fun.

What is the soldering iron for? You mention it as if it is supposed to mean something but don't elaborate. Additionally what makes you think this gets the tension 100% correct? Specifically what about your method avoids the issue of over tightening that other methods do not. I've got more parts for bolt modding than I think I'll ever actually be able to use since don't plan on getting many more Ms so I don't know if I'll ever try it out but the info on why it's the correct tightness would be helpful regardless of the bolt mod method.

It's good to hear that you haven't had any issues with the method though, that is one thing that concerns me about not removing the rivet before going in hot like that is that the rivet could fail later and you'd be in the same place you were before the screw mod. If you've had these for a couple years like that and they're fine then they'll probably continue to be fine for a good while though. How long has it been since you did the mod?

Muirium · 15 Dec 2021, 11:45

I-feel-your-pain-brother-it's-like-sometimes-folk-forget-there's-more-to-writing-than-just-the-words-and-what-you're-really-looking-for-is-the-delivery-too-yeah-like-a-bit-of-emphasis-here-and-pause-for-breath-there-and-just-kinda-generally-care-about-your-reader-a-bit-rather-than-just-the-itch-to-spill-it-someplace-there-I-said-it-you-do-what-you-like-with-it-people-someone-can-add-it-to-the-wiki-too.

I've one dodgy M remaining: my backup SSK. Was thinking of selling it, so the bolt or screw mod would be someone else's problem, but now there's talk of a new Model MF push that board's getting interesting again.

Jacobalbertus1 · 15 Dec 2021, 14:19

lmao, I wrote that at almost 1 AM. So all grammar was forgotten. with the rivets they are just existing they fail on the stem usually and that is replaced by a screw, and any of the ones that are easy to take off I take off. i don't recommend it unless you really know how to use tools like me, but i use an impact driver, soldering iron with tip replaces need for drilling but be warned its easy to mess that up if you don't know what you are doing

raoulduke-esq · 15 Dec 2021, 16:37

Muirium wrote: 15 Dec 2021, 11:45 I-feel-your-pain-brother-it's-like-sometimes-folk-forget-there's-more-to-writing-than-just-the-words-and-what-you're-really-looking-for-is-the-delivery-too-yeah-like-a-bit-of-emphasis-here-and-pause-for-breath-there-and-just-kinda-generally-care-about-your-reader-a-bit-rather-than-just-the-itch-to-spill-it-someplace-there-I-said-it-you-do-what-you-like-with-it-people-someone-can-add-it-to-the-wiki-too.

I've one dodgy M remaining: my backup SSK. Was thinking of selling it, so the bolt or screw mod would be someone else's problem, but now there's talk of a new Model MF push that board's getting interesting again.

"Backup SSK" like a "backup Bugatti" in today's market lol. Have you tried any of the converted boards? They're... probably 95% F in feel. Shame to think of the actual Fs that usually die to make one, but I'm just sentimental like that.

Muirium · 15 Dec 2021, 16:42

Nope, never tried an MF. They're rare. How many people ever made one? I never had the chance, in the day.

My backup Bugatti is one of my most expensive boards, actually. I paid Tinnie more for an SSK years and years ago than I subsequently did for my Kishsaver! SSK's were already in high demand back then. Getting me to fork out more than 100 for a keyboard takes some doing.

It became my backup once Cindy sold me another one for a real µprice. That one's staying M.

As for the donor F: that was a beat up XT I sourced from Cindy, and parted out. The case and backplate went to DMA who was building an XTant. Someone got the PCB and controller. I kept the barrels, flippers and caps. You use every part of the buffalo…

zrrion · 15 Dec 2021, 22:29

I've made an FSSK for someone, they're really nice. would love to make an FSSK out of one of the unicomp SSKs personally, at this point that would be cheaper than a proper SSK

Muirium · 15 Dec 2021, 22:57

You didn't keep it!?

Given Pandrew's controller, I expect a rock solid keyboard with closer to F than M feel, and in the ideal SSK form factor. Fantastic! It won't be as metal as my Kish, but nothing is. What it will be is a huge improvement over either IBM or Unicomp TKL.

Absolutely understand you on the Mini M conversion. I'd be into that if I didn't have a spare SSK, too. But I do have a spare SSK, in need of opening up anyways, so I'm in the unusual position of it being cheaper and better to go classic in my case! I prefer the original SSK's aesthetics and layout. (Especially the matter of Unicomp's very Unicomp LED window.) But a Model MF inside a Unicomp M Mini is desirable in itself!

zrrion · 16 Dec 2021, 00:21

I didn't keep it, no. Someone else had all the parts but didn't want to do the bolt mod for it so they sent it to be and I bolt modded it for cost of shipping, soldered the controller and tested it for like a week. Very nice board for sure and I hope to get one eventually