deskthority

Keyboard case and PCB design and modding tips and tricks I've learned with time, either from experiences or from other people.

A bit of terminology first:

- A unit (written as 1u) in terms of keyboards refers to the distance between two switches (measured from their centers), as well as keycap sizes. 1u is 19.05mm / 3/4" / 0.75".

- The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square for a regular switch cutout. Stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) are slightly different (although the 14mm square can easily be spotted in their design so you can still use that for centering).

- The actual size of a keycap of certain amount of units is less than those units multiplied by 19.05. A 1u keycap's actual size is more like an 18mm square (this is a back of the envelope measurement and varies between keycap profiles. However, this isn't meant to give you the actual size of keycaps, but give you a good understanding of what the units are and aren't and so the formulas later make sense).

- So what do those units actually measure and why should we care?

- When you have two adjacent switches on which you want to put keycaps of unit size of Xu, you place them them Xu units apart (measured from their centers). This ensures there is enough space between those two switches to press the keycaps without them interfering with one another.

- If you have two adjacent keys and you want to use keycaps of the same unit size on each, the center distance between the two should be that same unit size.

- So for two 1u keys (switches that are 1u apart and/or on which you want to use 1u keycaps) you place them 1 * 19.05mm apart (measured from their centers). 2u keys? 2 * 19.05mm center to center. 1.5u keys? 1.5 * 19.05mm apart center to center.

Disclaimer: There are some keyboards made by enthusiasts (and probably some commercial ones) that don't use the units and have just positioned keys by eye. Please, don't do this! It makes it harder for people to later design plates and PCBs for your keyboards. Make KLEs, etc.

1. To calculate the center distance between two keys of different units, use the following formula: ((Xu + Yu) / 2) * 19.05mm.

Example: If your left key is 1.75u and your right key is 1u, this becomes ((1.75 + 1) / 2) * 19.05 = (2.75 / 2) * 19.05 = 1.75 * 19.05 = 33.3375mm apart measured from their centers. If you need the center to center distance in units, not in millimeters, don't divide it by 19.05.

I have intentionally placed brackets in more places than they are needed in the calculations, just to make things clear.

If the formula doesn't really makes sense to you - don't worry. It took me awhile to get it either. Also, feel free to ask me for an explanation.

Thanks to j`ey on Freenode for teaching me this formula back in the day.

2. If you want to design for stepped key(s), to calculate the center distance between the stepped key and its adjacent non-stepped key add 0.5u to the size of the key(s) you want to be stepped, then use the formula above.

Example: The famous stepped Caps Lock. You want a 1.75u stepped Caps Lock and a 1u A key to its right. Add 0.5u to the Caps Lock size, essentially treating it as if it's a 2.25u key and then use the formula above. That's because the center stem of a stepped keycap for a certain size key is 0.5u to the left than on a non-stepped keycap of equivalent unit size.

If you have two adjacent stepped keys, use the regular formula to calculate their center distance. The stems of both are by 0.5u to the left, so the distance between them isn't changed.

To those curious how I found that out:

- I created a KLE of a 60% board without stepped keys, then using the raw data, I exported an SVG using swillkb's builder.
- Then, I created a second KLE with the keys stepped, exported SVG again.
- I measured the center distances between the non-stepped mod keys and the adjacent non-stepped 1u keys
- Then, I measured the center distances between the stepped mod keys and the adjacent non-stepped 1u keys
- Used the formula I'll post below (essentially the opposite of the formula above) to find out what keys create that center distance and saw that all of the stepped keys have their center 0.5u more to the left than their non-stepped counter part.

3. If you have a center to center distance, where the distance is Xu, to calculate the keys making up this distance, use the following formula: If the distance is in millimeters, first divide it by 19.05 to turn it into units. Then, the formula is: Xu * 2 = Yu.

Example: If you have 30.95625mm, 30.95625 / 19.05 = 1.625u. Then 1.625 * 2 = 3.25u.

Now, if you know the sizes of one of the keys for that center distance (like I know the right key in my case is 1u) subtract it from the result above and you get the size of the other key. In my case, that leaves me with the left key being 2.25u (or a stepped 1.75u key).

If you don't know however, you can either assume that distance is created by 2 keys of the same size, which is equal to their center distance (Remember? two 2u keys have a center distance of 2u, two 1.25u keys have a center distance of 1.25u) or knowing standard key sizes are 1u, 1.25u, 1.5u, 1.75u, 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u, 6u and 6.5u (with keys of other sizes being more rarely seen) you can start subtracting each of those keys from the center distance to see if the result is a common size key.

Over time, I'll post new tips as comments, then edit this post to include them

Last Updated: 11:50AM on 27th of April 2021

That's awesome thanks for your effort !

First off, I really want to stress that I don't want to be rude or condescending. Now, there's a bunch of redundant or wrong info you give, so I'll give my feedback on your informations.

ifohancroft wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 04:58 - The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square, with stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) being the exception.

that is simply not true, the 14mm cutout does not allow you to open the switch without having to desolder it. if you want such a cutout, it looks more like this (the recesses at the top/bottom are useless, but this still gives you an idea as to how it should look) :

- The actual size of a keycap of certain amount of units is less than those units multiplied by 19.05. A 1u keycap's actual size is more like an 18mm square.

this is not wrong, but I'd like to specify that this value changes between profiles, SA is ~18,20mm and DCS is ~18,10mm. Depending on the profile of keys, you can tweak your design to have smaller spaces between the keys. 19.05mm is a rule of thumb, a safe middle ground.

Disclaimer: There are some keyboards made by enthusiasts (and probably some commercial ones) that don't use the units and have just positioned keys by eye. Please, don't do this! It makes it harder for people to later design plates and PCBs for your keyboards. Make KLEs, etc.

This is only a problem if they are not documented, which is almost never the case (except from ergo people, but we don't talk about them)

2. If you want to design for stepped key(s), to calculate the center distance between the stepped key and its adjacent non-stepped key add 0.5u to the size of the key(s) you want to be stepped, then use the formula above.

There's something obviously wrong with this but I can't put my finger on it because I don't understand the use for such an information. I will say though, you shouldn't "add 0.5u" because that only applies to Caps Lock. The caps lock is 1.75u but the keycap part is 1.25u, this is why you add 0.5u. There are other stepped keys, and those don't work as easily.

Last Updated: 5:58AM on 26th of April 2021

I'll leave this out as a timestamp to the information I reacted to.

Now, there's a few things I want to mention as I've been dwelling into CAD myself quite a lot. I don't understand why you use those formulas, you almost never measure distances between keycaps in my experience.
My process for the information you give out would be as follows :
- sketch layout on KLE
- export from kbplate.ai03.com a plate file
- add roughly 0.5mm around the plate (the site gives you the 19.05mm grid, so you need to add clearance space for the case)
- design the rest of the case as you wish

There's also a lot of information you give but don't source, I know they're right, but I think I would be scared to use information I found from someone I don't know.

- Cherry MX datasheet in german, not a lot of information but worth a mention : wiki/File:Cherry_MX_datasheet_(July_1985).pdf
- Cherry MX datasheet, the best one in my opinion, has the most amount of information in the most compact format : wiki/File:Keymodule_MX.pdf

- I pray to god no one uses Imperial units to CAD, but if there are some heretics, here is an imperial datasheet : https://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Com ... Series.pdf
In case the link dies :

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

ifohancroft wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 04:58 - The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square, with stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) being the exception.

that is simply not true, the 14mm cutout does not allow you to open the switch without having to desolder it. ...

Well, that's exactly, what he said.

Lalaland124 wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 23:16 That's awesome thanks for your effort !

Thank you and most welcome!

AJM wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 09:20

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

ifohancroft wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 04:58 - The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square, with stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) being the exception.

that is simply not true, the 14mm cutout does not allow you to open the switch without having to desolder it. ...

Well, that's exactly, what he said.

Thank you!

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29 First off, I really want to stress that I don't want to be rude or condescending. Now, there's a bunch of redundant or wrong info you give, so I'll give my feedback on your informations.

Hey, if something I said was wrong or unclear, you are more than welcome to point it out. You are being neither rude nor condescending. Thank you!

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

ifohancroft wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 04:58 - The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square, with stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) being the exception.

that is simply not true, the 14mm cutout does not allow you to open the switch without having to desolder it. if you want such a cutout, it looks more like this (the recesses at the top/bottom are useless, but this still gives you an idea as to how it should look) :

MXSwitchCuouts.png

That's what I said/meant. I guess the combination of English being my second language + me sucking at explaining things/gathering my thoughts (even in my native language) was the end result. Thanks! I'd edit that to make it more clear.

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

- The actual size of a keycap of certain amount of units is less than those units multiplied by 19.05. A 1u keycap's actual size is more like an 18mm square.

this is not wrong, but I'd like to specify that this value changes between profiles, SA is ~18,20mm and DCS is ~18,10mm.

True. I didn't mean to explain/give actual keycap sizes. I was just trying to give out a brief explanation of units so the formulas later, make sense. Perhaps, I should make it clearer that the keycap size can vary between profiles though.

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29 Depending on the profile of keys, you can tweak your design to have smaller spaces between the keys. 19.05mm is a rule of thumb, a safe middle ground.

True! Also, it was the initial spec given by Cherry. (I say initial, because according to them, it's outdated and 19mm should be used now. Although if you check their old datasheets instead of listening to what they are currently saying, even back in the day they were proposing 19mm for when working in metric and 19.05 when working in imperial). But it is a good rule of thumb and a safe middle ground like you said. I like to stick to it because of that. You never know if the odd artisan would have trouble fitting if you size down to 19mm, specially if designing for someone else.

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

Disclaimer: There are some keyboards made by enthusiasts (and probably some commercial ones) that don't use the units and have just positioned keys by eye. Please, don't do this! It makes it harder for people to later design plates and PCBs for your keyboards. Make KLEs, etc.

This is only a problem if they are not documented, which is almost never the case (except from ergo people, but we don't talk about them)

I mean, yeah, there is almost always a work around around it, but it's easier for everyone if the units and specs are just followed.

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

2. If you want to design for stepped key(s), to calculate the center distance between the stepped key and its adjacent non-stepped key add 0.5u to the size of the key(s) you want to be stepped, then use the formula above.

There's something obviously wrong with this but I can't put my finger on it because I don't understand the use for such an information. I will say though, you shouldn't "add 0.5u" because that only applies to Caps Lock. The caps lock is 1.75u but the keycap part is 1.25u, this is why you add 0.5u. There are other stepped keys, and those don't work as easily.

In my experience, this doesn't apply to only Caps Lock. I'd be happy if you can prove me wrong though. I haven't worked with many stepped keys physically but take a KLE of a non-stepped Tab and a stepped Tab for example and measure. Whenever a key is stepped, the switch cutout's center is a 0.5u more to the left than it's not stepped counterpart.

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

Last Updated: 5:58AM on 26th of April 2021

I'll leave this out as a timestamp to the information I reacted to.

Now, there's a few things I want to mention as I've been dwelling into CAD myself quite a lot. I don't understand why you use those formulas, you almost never measure distances between keycaps in my experience.
My process for the information you give out would be as follows :
- sketch layout on KLE
- export from kbplate.ai03.com a plate file
- add roughly 0.5mm around the plate (the site gives you the 19.05mm grid, so you need to add clearance space for the case)
- design the rest of the case as you wish

I never work directly off the KLE. I always use them for studying the layout only and perhaps measuring, then create everything in scratch in CAD so I have bigger control. Also, not knowing the formulas keeps you limited to working on existing layouts only (and only those that have a KLE you have access to) or at least make it way harder to work on your own stuff or recreating others. I am still contemplating if I should add my process to this post or make a separate tutorial, but I do have to add my way of measuring from KLEs.

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29 There's also a lot of information you give but don't source, I know they're right, but I think I would be scared to use information I found from someone I don't know.

- Cherry MX datasheet in german, not a lot of information but worth a mention : wiki/File:Cherry_MX_datasheet_(July_1985).pdf
- Cherry MX datasheet, the best one in my opinion, has the most amount of information in the most compact format : wiki/File:Keymodule_MX.pdf

- I pray to god no one uses Imperial units to CAD, but if there are some heretics, here is an imperial datasheet : https://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Com ... Series.pdf
In case the link dies : MX Series.pdf

I totally agree on your statement about the usage of Imperial units in CAD

I see you have linked the datasheets. That's a great idea. Thank you! I'd make sure to do the same in one of the next edits.

Fair point, but can you please point which information you are saying can be given a source but I haven't?

ifohancroft wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 10:44

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

ifohancroft wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 04:58 - The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square, with stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) being the exception.

that is simply not true, the 14mm cutout does not allow you to open the switch without having to desolder it. if you want such a cutout, it looks more like this (the recesses at the top/bottom are useless, but this still gives you an idea as to how it should look) :

MXSwitchCuouts.png

That's what I said/meant. I guess the combination of English being my second language + me sucking at explaining things/gathering my thoughts (even in my native language) was the end result. Thanks! I'd edit that to make it more clear.

English is also my second language so I have no doubt there was some language barrier thing going, this was totally my bad!

ifohancroft wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 10:44

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

Disclaimer: There are some keyboards made by enthusiasts (and probably some commercial ones) that don't use the units and have just positioned keys by eye. Please, don't do this! It makes it harder for people to later design plates and PCBs for your keyboards. Make KLEs, etc.

This is only a problem if they are not documented, which is almost never the case (except from ergo people, but we don't talk about them)

I mean, yeah, there is almost always a work around around it, but it's easier for everyone if the units and specs are just followed.

I think it's quite limiting, a very known example of a board that uses a smaller grid is the 356Mini, IIRC it uses a 18,55mm grid as to make the keycaps way closer between themselves to make for a cleaner keyboard. I get that it's hard to document it all when you're learning about stuff but honestly, a single line in your project or whatever is enough to give everyone the idea of what's happening and what to take in account

ifohancroft wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 10:44

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29

2. If you want to design for stepped key(s), to calculate the center distance between the stepped key and its adjacent non-stepped key add 0.5u to the size of the key(s) you want to be stepped, then use the formula above.

There's something obviously wrong with this but I can't put my finger on it because I don't understand the use for such an information. I will say though, you shouldn't "add 0.5u" because that only applies to Caps Lock. The caps lock is 1.75u but the keycap part is 1.25u, this is why you add 0.5u. There are other stepped keys, and those don't work as easily.

In my experience, this doesn't apply to only Caps Lock. I'd be happy if you can prove me wrong though. I haven't worked with many stepped keys physically but take a KLE of a non-stepped Tab and a stepped Tab for example and measure. Whenever a key is stepped, the switch cutout's center is a 0.5u more to the left than it's not stepped counterpart.

the tab example works, again, because you're taking off 0.5u off the 1.5u you have. It will not work on a Control key from an XT keyboard which is 0,375u stepped, then 1u then another 0,375u stepped, there you would need to add 0,75 to the key. I concede that, most likely, you will only ever have to step the Caps Lock but still, this isn't true.

ifohancroft wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 10:44

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29 Now, there's a few things I want to mention as I've been dwelling into CAD myself quite a lot. I don't understand why you use those formulas, you almost never measure distances between keycaps in my experience.
My process for the information you give out would be as follows :
- sketch layout on KLE
- export from kbplate.ai03.com a plate file
- add roughly 0.5mm around the plate (the site gives you the 19.05mm grid, so you need to add clearance space for the case)
- design the rest of the case as you wish

I never work directly off the KLE. I always use them for studying the layout only and perhaps measuring, then create everything in scratch in CAD so I have bigger control. Also, not knowing the formulas keeps you limited to working on existing layouts only (and only those that have a KLE you have access to) or at least make it way harder to work on your own stuff or recreating others. I am still contemplating if I should add my process to this post or make a separate tutorial, but I do have to add my way of measuring from KLEs.

I'm not sure what you mean by bigger control ? nor what do you mean by keeps you limited to working on existing layouts ? KLE is quite a powerful tool, you can do all kinds of stuff to it and getting a plate from KLE through kbplate.ai03.com gives you a lot of control. I'm not sure how I convince you of it, oh well. (I'm not trying to get you to move on to my workflow, I'm just saying what you said about my workflow is not something I experience)

ifohancroft wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 10:44

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29 There's also a lot of information you give but don't source, I know they're right, but I think I would be scared to use information I found from someone I don't know.

- Cherry MX datasheet in german, not a lot of information but worth a mention : wiki/File:Cherry_MX_datasheet_(July_1985).pdf
- Cherry MX datasheet, the best one in my opinion, has the most amount of information in the most compact format : wiki/File:Keymodule_MX.pdf

- I pray to god no one uses Imperial units to CAD, but if there are some heretics, here is an imperial datasheet : https://cdn.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Com ... Series.pdf
In case the link dies : MX Series.pdf

I totally agree on your statement about the usage of Imperial units in CAD

I see you have linked the datasheets. That's a great idea. Thank you! I'd make sure to do the same in one of the next edits.

Fair point, but can you please point which information you are saying can be given a source but I haven't?

Sure :

ifohancroft wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 04:58 - A unit (written as 1u) in terms of keyboards refers to the distance between two switches (measured from their centers), as well as keycap sizes. 1u is 19.05mm / 3/4" / 0.75".

- The cutout in a plate, for an MX type switch is a 14mm square for a regular switch cutout. Stabilized keys and cutouts that allow you to open the switch without having to de-solder it (for non-hotswap boards) are slightly different (although the 14mm square can easily be spotted in their design so you can still use that for centering).

- The actual size of a keycap of certain amount of units is less than those units multiplied by 19.05. A 1u keycap's actual size is more like an 18mm square (this is a back of the envelope measurement and varies between keycap profiles. However, this isn't meant to give you the actual size of keycaps, but give you a good understanding of what the units are and aren't and so the formulas later make sense).

Myoth wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 00:29the site gives you the 19.05mm grid

I want to specify that this is by default, you can tweak it for it to give you a smaller or bigger grid.

First of all, I am sorry if I miss to reply to something or if I reply to the wrong thing. It's getting harder with more quotes. As much as I hate visual editors, perhaps we can benefit from one here so you can quickly glance over to see where one quote ends and another starts so you can remove certain quotes without the risk of messing up others. If I do miss to reply to something, please let me know.

Myoth wrote: English is also my second language so I have no doubt there was some language barrier thing going, this was totally my bad!

No! You were right! After your message, I re-read what I have written and it wasn't very clear so I have edited to (hopefully) make it better. Thank you!

Myoth wrote: I think it's quite limiting, a very known example of a board that uses a smaller grid is the 356Mini, IIRC it uses a 18,55mm grid as to make the keycaps way closer between themselves to make for a cleaner keyboard. I get that it's hard to document it all when you're learning about stuff but honestly, a single line in your project or whatever is enough to give everyone the idea of what's happening and what to take in account

I get what you are saying and I do agree smaller grids can be beneficial (or I guess larger, if you are into that sort of thing), but in what you are saying there is still (I presume) a consistency. Like you said, you can use a single line and let everyone know that is using your design that 1 unit in your design is a different value. I'm perfectly fine with that.

Even though you said we won't mention the Ergo people My problem is slightly different. Let me give you a real life example:

I have sent PRs to QMK with my keymaps for the various keyboards I own. Following QMK's guidelines, I include a KLE for each keymap, linked at the top of the README. The Prime_E keyboard I own, neither follows the keyboard units, neither has a KLE. Keys are moved and rotated as the designer has seen fit. I couldn't really re-create it as a KLE. So, my problem is when there is no consistency. I am totally fine if you re-define 1 unit in your design to be 19mm or something else and everything else follows that. I am not fine if you move one key 52cm to left, another 2mm up, rotate one key 8 degrees without known rotation center, etc.. Specially, if you do that and don't share a KLE of your keyboard. Although, perhaps I should add a point to my original statement that if you want to redefine 1u in your design to be a different size, specially if you share your files (KLE or whatever) and you follow that throughout the design, that's fine as long as there is consistency.

Myoth wrote: the tab example works, again, because you're taking off 0.5u off the 1.5u you have. It will not work on a Control key from an XT keyboard which is 0,375u stepped, then 1u then another 0,375u stepped, there you would need to add 0,75 to the key. I concede that, most likely, you will only ever have to step the Caps Lock but still, this isn't true.

I think we are mixing things up here.

1. Looking at an XT keyboard image, the Ctrl is definitely not a 0.375u and it's in-fact more than 1u:



When you say it's 0.375u stepped - do you mean like just the raised part or just the not raised part?

2. When you say I am taking off 0.5u off the 1.5u key - what do you mean I'm taking off? I am adding 0.5u. Which brings me to point #3

3. When talking about calculating the keys and the stepped keys - I am talking about the distance between the center of the key's switch cutout and the center of the switch cutout of a 1u switch next to it. So when I say I am adding 0.5u, I mean that the distance between the centers of the two switch cutouts, will be with 0.5u bigger than if the key was the same size but not stepped. Also, when I say a 1.5u key for example, I am not talking it's raised part or it's not raised part, I am talking a keycap of that size (that therefore goes on a switch that distance from another switch (again, count from the centers)) so I am a bit confused about what do you mean when you say the Ctrl key on an XT keyboard is less than 1u.

Yes, if the key is less than 1u, this would probably not apply, but I do consider this a special case. Nevertheless, I would love to measure it and add it to the formula above, however, I haven't see a keyboard with a key with smaller than 1u so far (at least that I can think of).

Edit: Just measured in KLE, stepping a 1u key, 0.75u key and a 0.5u key (it doesn't allow keys smaller than that) the addition of 0.5u still holds.

Edit 2: Also, (perhaps I should add this to the original post) my formula, about adding 0.5u only applies to stepped keys when the raised portion is on the left as only then, the center mounting point on the keycap is more to the left. If the key is raised in the middle, then I believe nothing needs to be added. Also, respectively, if the raised portion is only on the right, then I believe you need to substract 0.5 (I need to add this to the original post as well).

4. I need to go back and check if I have made it clear for the stepped key calculation or if it's clear about the general post at least, but - I am talking about keyboards with MX type switches exclusively, at least for most of this points.

Myoth wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by bigger control ? nor what do you mean by keeps you limited to working on existing layouts ? KLE is quite a powerful tool, you can do all kinds of stuff to it and getting a plate from KLE through kbplate.ai03.com gives you a lot of control. I'm not sure how I convince you of it, oh well. (I'm not trying to get you to move on to my workflow, I'm just saying what you said about my workflow is not something I experience)

Neither am I trying to move you to my workflow but I do appreciate you sharing your workflow as we can all benefit from each other's experience. Also, I am not saying your workflow is limited.

Basically, here's what I was trying to say. Let me know if it wasn't very clear and if I should perhaps edit the original post to make it clearer.

1. It's good knowing the units and what they mean and how to figure out/calculate where and how to place two different size keys one next to another (I mean like where the center of the switch cutouts should be, how further from one another). I think this doesn't apply in your workflow/isn't needed, but my idea is to teach people this method and whether they use it, it's up to them. In one of the below points I explain my workflow and why it's limiting for my type of workflow if I don't know the units and how to calculate them.

2. I try to design everything to my specifications (how much border there is around the switch cutout, etc). In other words I like to have a control over every aspect of the design, whether it's a plate, a case or a PCB. If I just used a KLE and a plate builder, I'd then edit the SVG to at least measure it, to make sure the border around the switch cutouts is as much as I want (I usually do it one full unit + border depending on the type of plate mounting and screw size I want to use, at least for 1u keys, so with the switch cutout being 14mm and 1u being 19.05 and if I want to use bottom plate mounting with M2 screws, I'd add 2.525mm + 5mm around the outer switches). To do that, I need to know the units. Even more than that, since I am measuring everything (even if just to see if my software didn't screw up the scaling), I don't use plates generated from a KLE, I design directly from scratch in CAD so I position all my switches manually and for that I need to know the units and how to calculate them. The designs I make in KLE or use in KLE, rarely get out of KLE, I usually use them there and there only and don't generate them, except for when I am trying to study a design or something like that.

Myoth wrote: Sure :

Thank you! That's a good catch/point. I'd link the datasheets.

Myoth wrote: I want to specify that this is by default, you can tweak it for it to give you a smaller or bigger grid.

Are we talking about KLE? How? I can't find a way to make it treat 1u as anything other than 19.05mm. If we are talking about the plate generator you use - possible, I don't think I've ever used it. When I do generate KLEs into plates, I use builder.swillkb.com/