SKCC Alps Project

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 22:14

Hey deskthority! This is officially my first ever post on here, though I've been meaning to make an account on here for a while. I wanted to ask for some help on a project of mine, thats been going on for a while now. Mostly due to shipping times from Alliexpress and doubtfulness.

So, just like I recently saw on r/mechanicalkeyboards, I want to make an ALPS SKCC board since I feel they are my favorite linear switch I have tried to date. Though I love tactile switches, I feel that good ones are few and far between. Besides, I already have a smashed up TRS-80!

Anyhow, I wanted to create a 40% keyboard with SKCC switches. Odd, I know. I wanted to be able to use it while I am out and about, schooling and such. So heres the layout I came up with:

https://imgur.com/a/Xrvrg

Of course I want to change the layout now, but I don't have any cross mount keycaps that could work as a 3u spacebar. If anyone has something like that, please let me know!

I hope to build a mostly wooden case, with some latches to hold down a wooden cover over the keyboard when not in use. The wooden case part ought to be easy, me coming from a family of carpenters. The hardest part so far for me have been the following things:

- I, for some reason, want a solenoid. I feel it would work great with the wood casing, but I don't know exactly how to wire one to an on/off switch which would also be wired to the keyswitches. Ultimately I wanted to be able to turn the solenoid on and off, while still being able to type on the board.

- Secondly, I have no idea how to get a plate for this thing. I though about buying a scrap plate for the Apple m0110 and cutting it down, but I don't know if that will fit all the keys I want. Furthermore...

- I have two different ways of tackling this. From what I have seen, SKCC has the same pinout as SKCM, so I can use a Daisy 40% PCB that I originally got for some orange alps I acquired. Or, I can wire it all up to a teensy.

- This being my first time, some help with diodes would be greatly appreciated. Absolutely no idea how those work.

- Finally, I was hoping to find where I can get some holtite pins so I can hotswap the switches

That's among a bunch of other complications that will arise in this build, if it is ever complete. I know I'm asking for a lot, but I was wondering if anyone could share their thoughts on this? It would be great if you did!

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 22:19

Also, I happen to be doing a school project based on comparisons of keyswitches. So, stay tuned for that!

Chyros · 06 Jan 2018, 23:09

Please note that SKCC caps use a different mount from MX caps, so sourcing nonstandard ones will be tricky

.

seebart · 06 Jan 2018, 23:16

Also used SKCC switches can feel really shitty and cannot be cleaned like SKCM. So you better find new ones or be sure they are clean which might not be easy. Sounds like a cool project, good luck!

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:32

seebart wrote: Also used SKCC switches can feel really shitty and cannot be cleaned like SKCM. So you better find new ones or be sure they are clean which might not be easy. Sounds like a cool project, good luck!

I actually might end up taking out some SKCC Greens from an IBM Pingmaster that I have, new old stock. So hopefully that will avoid the whole cleaning thingS

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:38

Chyros wrote: Please note that SKCC caps use a different mount from MX caps, so sourcing nonstandard ones will be tricky .

Oh I'm just gonna use the cross mount caps from the TRS-80

Engicoder · 06 Jan 2018, 23:42

seebart wrote: Also used SKCC switches can feel really shitty and cannot be cleaned like SKCM. S

Why can they not be cleaned? They can be disassembled like SKCM.

seebart · 06 Jan 2018, 23:46

Engicoder wrote: They can be disassembled like SKCM.

Nope, not in the same way. Much more tedious to open them. Close to impossible for many like myself. You and consideringquiet may be able to do so with "ease" on the other hand.

consideringquiet wrote: I actually might end up taking out some SKCC Greens from an IBM Pingmaster that I have, new old stock. So hopefully that will avoid the whole cleaning thingS

Then you are set regarding the switches.

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:47

Engicoder wrote:
seebart wrote: Also used SKCC switches can feel really shitty and cannot be cleaned like SKCM. S
Why can they not be cleaned? They can be disassembled like SKCM.

I think he means that they cant be disassembled while still soldered in. Or that they are incredibly difficult to put back together.

I don't have much luck taking apart Alps SKCM switches in the first place, (successful, sort of, once out of three tries). So I might just steer clear from taking them apart to begin with.

seebart · 06 Jan 2018, 23:49

Taking apart SKCM is easier than taking apart SKCC any way you cut it.

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:49

seebart wrote:
Engicoder wrote: They can be disassembled like SKCM.
Nope, not in the same way. Much more tedious to open them. Close to impossible for many like myself. You and consideringquiet may be able to do so with "ease" on the other hand.

Nope, not me! I had to take apart an Orange Alps switch because of a broken off keystem in the switch.. I managed to put in a white stem as replacement but I didn't quite manage to put the tactile leaf in correctly, so its sort of a rough linear switch now. Basically, my hands are way too shaky to be a neurosurgeon or a key switch cleaner!

seebart · 06 Jan 2018, 23:50

consideringquiet wrote:
seebart wrote:
Engicoder wrote: They can be disassembled like SKCM.
Nope, not in the same way. Much more tedious to open them. Close to impossible for many like myself. You and consideringquiet may be able to do so with "ease" on the other hand.
Nope, not me! I had to take apart an Orange Alps switch because of a broken off keystem in the switch.. I managed to put in a white stem as replacement but I didn't quite manage to put the tactile leaf in correctly, so its sort of a rough linear switch now. Basically, my hands are way too shaky to be a neurosurgeon or a key switch cleaner!

Right, I'm not saying either are "easy" to deal with. There are people who can do that much better than others.

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:51

seebart wrote:
Engicoder wrote: They can be disassembled like SKCM.
Nope, not in the same way. Much more tedious to open them. Close to impossible for many like myself. You and consideringquiet may be able to do so with "ease" on the other hand.

consideringquiet wrote: I actually might end up taking out some SKCC Greens from an IBM Pingmaster that I have, new old stock. So hopefully that will avoid the whole cleaning thingS
Then you are set regarding the switches.

I just hope they have the right pinout, I haven't been able to desolder any yet to test fit

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:54

seebart wrote:

Right, I'm not saying either are "easy" to deal with. There are people who can do that much better than others.

Aw I'm just joking around. I'm not willing to test my luck with disassembly though. The TRS 80 didn't look too dirty when I got it, though. Just a bit stiff overall, but I think that has to do with the weighting of SKCC Cream no?

seebart · 06 Jan 2018, 23:55

I also own the IBM "Pingmaster" (hate that name) but I could never sacrifice any part of it for anything else but I like the idea of your project!

keyboards-f2/ibm-part-no-6112884-t11815 ... %206112884

consideringquiet · 06 Jan 2018, 23:58

seebart wrote: I also own the IBM "Pingmaster" (hate that name) but I could never sacrifice any part of it for anything else but I like the idea of your project!

keyboards-f2/ibm-part-no-6112884-t11815 ... %206112884

The name does kinda make you think the board isnt as great as it is

I might very well just use the switches from the TRS-80, they seemed to be in pretty fair condition anyhow, the backplate was also barely dirty. I got really lucky with it being local and all

seebart · 07 Jan 2018, 00:02

consideringquiet wrote: The name does kinda make you think the board isnt as great as it is

Exactly! The name is not worthy of such a great keyboard. Of course it does "ping" like many vintage KB's.

consideringquiet wrote: I might very well just use the switches from the TRS-80, they seemed to be in pretty fair condition anyhow, the backplate was also barely dirty. I got really lucky with it being local and all

Cool.

consideringquiet · 07 Jan 2018, 00:31

seebart wrote:
consideringquiet wrote: The name does kinda make you think the board isnt as great as it is
Exactly! The name is not worthy of such a great keyboard. Of course it does "ping" like many vintage KB's.

consideringquiet wrote: I might very well just use the switches from the TRS-80, they seemed to be in pretty fair condition anyhow, the backplate was also barely dirty. I got really lucky with it being local and all
Cool.

*cough* Apple M0110 *cough*

Chyros · 07 Jan 2018, 00:34

You can buy SKCC NOS, there's an enormous stock of them left.

consideringquiet · 07 Jan 2018, 00:41

Chyros wrote: You can buy SKCC NOS, there's an enormous stock of them left.

Really? From where?

Chyros · 07 Jan 2018, 01:14

consideringquiet wrote:
Chyros wrote: You can buy SKCC NOS, there's an enormous stock of them left.
Really? From where?

It was on eBay for a while, I think they're on Taobao now. I don't have a link myself, but I'm sure someone here does

.

Engicoder · 07 Jan 2018, 01:21

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPS-Vintage-K ... 2551024398

Same seller has other auctions for different quantities including 4000!

consideringquiet · 07 Jan 2018, 01:24

Chyros wrote: It was on eBay for a while, I think they're on Taobao now. I don't have a link myself, but I'm sure someone here does .

Thanks a million!

Engicoder wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPS-Vintage-K ... 2551024398

Same seller has other auctions for different quantities including 4000!

Whoa, thanks!! Is one dollar per switch the normal price?

Chyros · 07 Jan 2018, 02:22

consideringquiet wrote:
Chyros wrote: It was on eBay for a while, I think they're on Taobao now. I don't have a link myself, but I'm sure someone here does .
Thanks a million!

Engicoder wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPS-Vintage-K ... 2551024398

Same seller has other auctions for different quantities including 4000!
Whoa, thanks!! Is one dollar per switch the normal price?

It's not cheap, but certainly not extortionate. For NOS vintage switches that aren't otherwise easy to get hold of I'd say it's pretty decent.

Lbibass · 07 Jan 2018, 16:29

Chyros wrote: You can buy SKCC NOS, there's an enormous stock of them left.

Really? That sounds awesome!

consideringquiet · 09 Jan 2018, 17:52

Chyros wrote: It's not cheap, but certainly not extortionate. For NOS vintage switches that aren't otherwise easy to get hold of I'd say it's pretty decent.

Is there a similar way of buying solenoids?

Chyros · 09 Jan 2018, 17:56

consideringquiet wrote:
Chyros wrote: It's not cheap, but certainly not extortionate. For NOS vintage switches that aren't otherwise easy to get hold of I'd say it's pretty decent.
Is there a similar way of buying solenoids?

Solenoids are pretty standard components, and all they do is jackhammer against the case. Technically you could use other solenoids as well.

FXT · 12 Jan 2018, 06:13

Chyros wrote:
consideringquiet wrote:
Chyros wrote: It's not cheap, but certainly not extortionate. For NOS vintage switches that aren't otherwise easy to get hold of I'd say it's pretty decent.
Is there a similar way of buying solenoids?
Solenoids are pretty standard components, and all they do is jackhammer against the case. Technically you could use other solenoids as well.

Would you happen to have any more information? I'm quite interested in adding a solenoid to one of my boards but I haven't been able to find any information about anyone adding a solenoid that wasn't from an IBM board.

consideringquiet · 12 Jan 2018, 19:24

FXT wrote:
Chyros wrote: Solenoids are pretty standard components, and all they do is jackhammer against the case. Technically you could use other solenoids as well.
Would you happen to have any more information? I'm quite interested in adding a solenoid to one of my boards but I haven't been able to find any information about anyone adding a solenoid that wasn't from an IBM board.

I've seen a few on alliexpress, my trouble is finding one that i could somehow wire up to my board... No idea how haha

OldIsNew · 13 Jan 2018, 00:25

consideringquiet wrote:
FXT wrote: Would you happen to have any more information? I'm quite interested in adding a solenoid to one of my boards but I haven't been able to find any information about anyone adding a solenoid that wasn't from an IBM board.
I've seen a few on alliexpress, my trouble is finding one that i could somehow wire up to my board... No idea how haha

If you're planning on using a Teensy/Arduino as a controller for your board, it's not that difficult to add a 5V solenoid directly driven by the Teensy. Here are a link about making a driver circuit and a link with a source for 5V solenoids (I'm sure there are plenty of others).

Solenoid driver circuit: https://core-electronics.com.au/tutoria ... duino.html

5V solenoid: https://www.adafruit.com/product/2776

This was the driver I made for my Fluke 5V solenoid:

: solenoidB.jpg (267.54 KiB) Viewed 5428 times

Link to my post: workshop-f7/scratchy-fluke-1720a-switches-t17428.html

Driving a larger solenoid would require some additional circuitry to step up the voltage or a secondary voltage supply, but I was able to get the simple 5V driver working without difficulty. Someone with some actual electronics experience could probably help if you wanted to make a driver for a larger solenoid.