deskthority

I finally have time yesterday to pick this keyboard up. To recap, I purchased this board when I was hunting for green Alps, as this model seems to be a good candidate to sport those switches. Ended up it is a beauty with a grayish industrial look of its era, and the manufacturer spent quite some efforts in many design details.

Unboxing:



Details of the (8-pin? or 5 out of 8 pin?) connecting cable:

DuPont!


Extension for mouse or some other attachments:


Bottom of the case and feet:




The plate is made of black coated steel:


Chips from left to right:

The controller?



Markings on lower half of the case:


The PCB:


Markings on the PCB:
By Alps Electric (USA), a rev G board.



An interesting spot on the PCB behind the controller:


The art of bending the switch pins:


Back to the switches, all caps seem to be dye-sub PBT by the way.
It really has mainly green Alps, but in total it has 5 types of switches on this board.
Only one LED switch, white in color and slightly heavier:

The arrow key cluster has some switches I've seen elsewhere (but forgot where exactly):

The space bar has an ivory color heavy switch; however, the 'Break' key and the 'Compose Character' key have the heaviest switches among all the keyboard switches I've ever tried in my memory - I feel as if I have to put my body weight into pressing it. Those super heavy switches are ivory in color but marked with some dirty black ink on top. The 'dirty-ivory' Alps are the two non-green Alps on the left with key caps removed:


A simple demonstration by a piece of solid copper at ~40g:

Arrow key Alps - totally depressed

SKCL green Alps - almost totally depressed

White LED Alps - partially depressed

Ivory Alps at the space bar - only slightly depressed

'Dirty ivory' Alps - almost nothing depressed, no need to take any antidepressant!


I'm not a full-size keyboard person.
However, I really want to make this keyboard work again for the modern computers, despite not having the technical knowhow. I've looked up this kind of connector for a few times in search engines but no keyboard connector like this resulted in my queries, perhaps wrong keywords or perhaps this connector was in a really small niche.

Very cool!

So we have SKCL Cream (spacebar), SKCL Cream LED, and SKCL Heavy Cream. The black mark tells us it is a special heavy switch. This switch has also been found in Sharp X6800 keyboards and hasn't been documented yet. It is similar to SKCL Heavy Grey (wiki/Alps_SKCL_Heavy_Grey) and is its predecessor. We haven't seen SKCL Cream in LED form before I believe.

If you desolder the board for Greens would you mind sending me a LED Cream and Heavy Cream? I would love to document them further for the wiki If not I could send you some SKCL Green internals so you can replace the switches without desoldering.

Very nice Menuhin, thanks for all the details! Your pictures are more than fine for the wiki entry. So how do you like those green Alps?

@Mattr567
Mousefan documented the SKCL heavy grey (http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/haijiku.htm) but not a super heavy and 'dirty' SKCL grey yet (http://mousefan.telcontar.net/jiku.htm). I have a board with SKCM cream dampened coming in soon, so I can compare its color with cream and white side by side, but telling from just the first look they're definitely not quite white not quite yellow in color.
Currently I don't have a plan to desolder it yet because for the greens, I have a smaller-size used Zenith Z-150 coming in as a donor of the green Alps. And I am also investigating how to turn these older boards hot-swappable with receptacles so that I can still enjoy using these 'Oldtimer' by swapping in some "switches of the day".
If I do break free some of these SKCL grey/ivory/cream switches, I will send you one no problem. I am happy to help documenting for the Wiki anytime.

@seebart
Thanks for pushing me to post for the wiki, I really want to have more time to do more.
I like this board a lot - it's my first Alps board although it's by the Alps Electric (USA) not the mother company. However, I think I'll eventually find this board a new owner, perhaps after I have done something to try decipher the protocol of this proprietary terminal plug.
I like the green Alps - it is not totally linear yet very smooth. For all switches, I want they to have enough resistance to support my fingers when I rest my fingers on the home row. I hate Cherry MX red because it is so light that they're easily pressed already when my fingers are just at the resting position. I like Gateron black for its smoothness and its heavy springs to support my fingers and that avoid bottoming out when I type heavily. Green Alps are as smooth as Gateron black (haven't compared them side by side yet, I've been using HHKB Pro2), with its weight in between MX reds and Gateron blacks. It all depends on my typing skill - if I can type on them without bottoming out, then love~ <3

DON'T desolder this board please!

It's a beauty, thanks for documenting it so nicely! Really cool range of switches too .

The arrow key switches are Alps integrated dome, btw.

Another AMD controlled keyboard. Cool.

@Chyros
Yeah, I've probably seen those white stems of the arrow key switches in your "Dome with slider megareview".

My preliminary effort in figuring out how to make this keyboard work again.
The only similar cable I found from a Thailand website but for some DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) keyboard. I found this 8-Pin 2x4 IDC Header Slot to be quite common on older motherboard indeed.
For example to connect to a PS/2 port:
http://www.connectworld.net/cgi-bin/dataw/L1225
http://www.cablesonline.com/mintoidc2x4p.html
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/6-Pin-MiniDIN-PS ... SwLpdW~HBF

However, I have to understand more the controller and the motherboard pin setting of the machine it is supposed to connect to, like this example:
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=4 ... 8&start=20

Menuhin wrote: @Chyros
Yeah, I've probably seen those white stems of the arrow key switches in your "Dome with slider megareview".

No actually, these are completely discrete switches soldered into a PCB, they're a little higher up than a normal dome with slider design.

I did do a review on an AWX with them in not too long ago though:

Menuhin wrote: @Mattr567
Mousefan documented the SKCL heavy grey (http://mousefan.telcontar.net/image/haijiku.htm) but not a super heavy and 'dirty' SKCL grey yet (http://mousefan.telcontar.net/jiku.htm). I have a board with SKCM cream dampened coming in soon, so I can compare its color with cream and white side by side, but telling from just the first look they're definitely not quite white not quite yellow in color.
Currently I don't have a plan to desolder it yet because for the greens, I have a smaller-size used Zenith Z-150 coming in as a donor of the green Alps. And I am also investigating how to turn these older boards hot-swappable with receptacles so that I can still enjoy using these 'Oldtimer' by swapping in some "switches of the day".
If I do break free some of these SKCL grey/ivory/cream switches, I will send you one no problem. I am happy to help documenting for the Wiki anytime.

Thanks man

I'm 99% sure they are Cream. Not all Cream sliders are the same shade. SKCM Cream, SKCL Cream and SKCM Cream Dampened all have different shades of cream. Here is where we discussed this on GH, see post #4010 by alh84001 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45456.4000

In these pictures you can see the same switch as your's in the Sharp with the same black mark on the slider in the same location. Comparisons were made to SKCM Salmon and SKCM Cream since we weren't sure what to call it at the time.

Small update on your Tektronix keyboard here Menuhin, looks like it may belong to a 4211 Tektronix terminal and was also used with other products:

http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Tektronix_4211

There is also link to a 318MB 576 page PDF Tektronix catalog form 1989 there that include these pictures:

So many ICs on PCB, really intriguing...

Why blue Alps is prefered over white Alps...I don't see any notable difference in terms of structure of the switch.

That's an excellent picture. You can actually see the difference in curvature of the click leaves. And of course the switchplates are different. And therefore the housings. And the contact leaves. And blue Alps used lubed sliders.

See I always though the difference was the switch plate and the spring. The tall switch plate always makes for incredible switches. My favorite tactile switch, Orange Alps, also has them.

@Chyros

When I opened them I asked myself this：“Do those minute distinctions make huge difference on tactile and sound", I think white Alps is good enough and abundant, surely blue Alps is better, but maybe, it's so soght-after mostly due to its rarity and people's curiosity.

Mr.Nobody wrote: @Chyros

When I opened them I asked myself this：“Do those minute distinctions make huge difference on tactile and sound", I think white Alps is good enough and abundant, surely blue Alps is better, but maybe, it's so soght-after mostly due to its rarity and people's curiosity.

It's probably a mixture of both. The problem is that many people who try both have boards in mixed condition, which is highly detrimental to the result. Because blue Alps are older, it's easier to find them in bad condition, which might feel like a levelling-out of quality. However, when you try two pristine keyboards white white and blue Alps next to each other, IMO, there is no mistaking the difference in quality.

I'm still not sure what exactly it is that makes them better; whereas it's a single part or a combination of all the different parts (and yes, ALL the parts are different between the two switches). I'd have to do some extensive testing, but it'd be hard to do and harder to do objectively. It'd have to be using as-new switches, using a sizeable amount at the same time, switching just one part at a time, with different combinations side-by-side for comparison, and it'd have to be a blind test, too. Virtually impossible to do properly, unfortunately.

Chyros wrote:

Mr.Nobody wrote: @Chyros

When I opened them I asked myself this：“Do those minute distinctions make huge difference on tactile and sound", I think white Alps is good enough and abundant, surely blue Alps is better, but maybe, it's so soght-after mostly due to its rarity and people's curiosity.

It's probably a mixture of both. The problem is that many people who try both have boards in mixed condition, which is highly detrimental to the result. Because blue Alps are older, it's easier to find them in bad condition, which might feel like a levelling-out of quality. However, when you try two pristine keyboards white white and blue Alps next to each other, IMO, there is no mistaking the difference in quality.

I'm still not sure what exactly it is that makes them better; whereas it's a single part or a combination of all the different parts (and yes, ALL the parts are different between the two switches). I'd have to do some extensive testing, but it'd be hard to do and harder to do objectively. It'd have to be using as-new switches, using a sizeable amount at the same time, switching just one part at a time, with different combinations side-by-side for comparison, and it'd have to be a blind test, too. Virtually impossible to do properly, unfortunately.

I know where to find as-new switches, the ones under the useless Scroll-Lock keycaps are most probably "new"

Mr.Nobody wrote:

Chyros wrote:

Mr.Nobody wrote: @Chyros

When I opened them I asked myself this：“Do those minute distinctions make huge difference on tactile and sound", I think white Alps is good enough and abundant, surely blue Alps is better, but maybe, it's so soght-after mostly due to its rarity and people's curiosity.

It's probably a mixture of both. The problem is that many people who try both have boards in mixed condition, which is highly detrimental to the result. Because blue Alps are older, it's easier to find them in bad condition, which might feel like a levelling-out of quality. However, when you try two pristine keyboards white white and blue Alps next to each other, IMO, there is no mistaking the difference in quality.

I'm still not sure what exactly it is that makes them better; whereas it's a single part or a combination of all the different parts (and yes, ALL the parts are different between the two switches). I'd have to do some extensive testing, but it'd be hard to do and harder to do objectively. It'd have to be using as-new switches, using a sizeable amount at the same time, switching just one part at a time, with different combinations side-by-side for comparison, and it'd have to be a blind test, too. Virtually impossible to do properly, unfortunately.

I know where to find as-new switches, the ones under the useless Scroll-Lock keycaps are most probably "new"

Unused, yes, but don't forget they have to be clean!

seebart wrote: Small update on your Tektronix keyboard here Menuhin, looks like it may belong to a 4211 Tektronix terminal and was also used with other products:

http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Tektronix_4211

There is also link to a 318MB 576 page PDF Tektronix catalog form 1989 there that include these pictures:

Spoiler:

Unbenannt2.PNG

Unbenannt3.PNG

Right. I actually downloaded the PDF somewhere and made snapshots for all the photos that I posted here about Tektronix's CAD workstations and terminals and some of its keyboards. Because almost no one has written about Tektronix's discontinued computing systems and its keyboards, and Tektronix is now known for mostly just its oscilloscopes and engineering measurement products.

Menuhin wrote: Right. I actually downloaded the PDF somewhere and made snapshots for all the photos that I posted here about Tektronix's CAD workstations and terminals and some of its keyboards. Because almost no one has written about Tektronix's discontinued computing systems and its keyboards, and Tektronix is now known for mostly just its oscilloscopes and engineering measurement products.

Really? Aside from this thread I don't see any of that?!?

seebart wrote:

Menuhin wrote: Right. I actually downloaded the PDF somewhere and made snapshots for all the photos that I posted here about Tektronix's CAD workstations and terminals and some of its keyboards. Because almost no one has written about Tektronix's discontinued computing systems and its keyboards, and Tektronix is now known for mostly just its oscilloscopes and engineering measurement products.

Really? Aside from this thread I don't see any of that?!?

Tektronix itself has a museum seemingly organized by former staff, but its a huge engineering company and I could not find much information from their website about Tektronix's CAD workstation and terminal.

Yes, I got an idea of how big Tektronix must have been from that PDF. I still need to add your keyboard to our wiki, but I got all the files together.