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Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:36
by 7bit
Zehkul wrote:
7bit wrote:OK, here comes NEO (first version). Please don't kill me if it is not what you think NEO should be!
Looks nice indeed! * on the O key is a bit off. Dead keys are missing, too, but I don’t really know what to do about them, either. RC-1140 suggested this.
The different font on ‚ „ compared to ‘ “ and ’ ” looks strange, too, kinda. Funny that SP can’t do ℓ :lol: (And ſ :lol:)
You should give me the LaTeX codes for these many quotation marks. The hand-written l would cost extra and the long s is obsolete since the late 1920s.

When writing Fraktur texts: you always: can use the ``:'' to indicate you don't want the long s!

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:46
by rodtang
The next round should be black on white.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:46
by RC-1140
My svg should help here, all symbols are included as Unicode Text.

The long s is simply sexy! "ſ" And the ℓ is the symbol for litres. One of the great advantages of the Neo Layout is that you don't have to remember all the LaTeX codes for all these special characters anymore, you simply enter them.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:51
by 7bit
RC-1140 wrote:My svg should help here, all symbols are included as Unicode Text.

The long s is simply sexy! "ſ" And the ℓ is the symbol for litres. One of the great advantages of the Neo Layout is that you don't have to remember all the LaTeX codes for all these special characters anymore, you simply enter them.
Were are the integral signs? Greek letters? Set and group theory? Linear geometry? APL? Topology?

I demand to be able to enter ALL thinkable mathematical and other scientific symbols with my keyboard!

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 18:55
by RC-1140
hehe, they are in the layers 4, 5, and 6. There you have all the Ξ√ΛℂΩ×ΨΓΦℚ∘⊂∫∀∃∈Σℕℝ∂Δ∇∩ℵΠℤ⇐⇔⇒↦Θξλχωκψγφϕςιαεοσνρτδυϵηπζβµϱϑθ
you want! All the above symbols were entered using the Neo layout. It's great! It just doesn't look great to put all the symbols on the Keycaps, so you usually stick to Layers 1, 2 and 3.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:03
by 7bit
RC-1140 wrote:hehe, they are in the layers 4, 5, and 6. There you have all the Ξ√ΛℂΩ×ΨΓΦℚ∘⊂∫∀∃∈Σℕℝ∂Δ∇∩ℵΠℤ⇐⇔⇒↦Θξλχωκψγφϕςιαεοσνρτδυϵηπζβµϱϑθ
you want! All the above symbols were entered using the Neo layout. It's great! It just doesn't look great to put all the symbols on the Keycaps, so you usually stick to Layers 1, 2 and 3.
kardℝ4=ℵ


I'm miſſing Fraktur letters? How ſhould I write vectors or matrices?

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:16
by RC-1140
well, Neo only has Unicode Characters, ſo no Vectors, and no Matrices. And which Fraktur Letters are you miſſing? You can create Ligatures uſing the Compoſe Key (Mod3[Caps Lock] + Tab). ff, ſt and ſuch. :ugeek:

Additionally I can't hear you over the ſound of how aweſome this layout is! lalalalala

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:19
by 7bit
RC-1140 wrote:well, Neo only has Unicode Characters, so no Vectors, and no Matrices. And which Fraktur Letters are you missing? You can create Ligatures using the Compose Key (Mod3[Caps Lock] + Tab). ff, ſt and such. :ugeek:

Additionally I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome this layout is! lalalalala
$\mathfrak{A}\ldots\mathfrak{Z}$ for matrices and $\mathfrak{a}\ldots\mathfrak{z}$ for vectors.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:24
by RC-1140
this ain't Unicode chars dude, that's LaTeX. No way of uſing this anywhere elſe, ſo no uſe in a Keymap (except if you create makros for it.) But we're going far OT here, we ſhould continue in the German ſubſection in one of the Neo Threads. Or create a new one.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:29
by 7bit
What kind of thead is this anyway?
:lol:

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:36
by Zehkul
So, SP can’t even do ſ? Uhhh. Slackers.

What would a full modifier (mod 3, mod 4) set cost us? 1 R4U125(, 1 R2U150, many ANSIers here ;P) + a capslock?

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 20:02
by Minskleip
7bit wrote:
Minskleip wrote:Will the lowquantity fee go away if you order 3 of a kit, or 3 times the number you have already ordered?
order 3x (or more) SPH/POS and there will be no low qty fee for your order.Usually, it will be cheaper to order 3-4 times an item instead of just one plus the low qty fee.

The idea behind this is to encourage people to order more.

:-)
Cool, then I'll have to look at the list again

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 20:05
by 7bit
Zehkul wrote:So, SP can’t even do ſ? Uhhh. Slackers.

What would a full modifier (mod 3, mod 4) set cost us? 1 R4U125(, 1 R2U150, many ANSIers here ;P) + a capslock?
need a lit like
R4U125: Mod 1
R4U125: Mod 2
R4U125: Mod 3
...
R3U175: Mod n

There are too many different NEO layout graphics floating around. I think NEO is so confusing that not even NEOists know where to put the labels properly.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 20:10
by nick_knife
Anyone here with a QPAD Keyboard? Can u please check the size of the space key? I was talkin to 7bit about the sizes but i just wanna double check in case i made a misstake. Need the full length of the key (11,3cm ?) the distance between both stabilizers (center to center) (9,8cm ?) and the distance between the 2 key stem holes (2,2cm?) If someone was that kind and could check it again that would be sweet <3

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 21:10
by Zehkul
Friend with Razer BlackWidow: 11, 3... check 9, 8... check
Friend with Razer BlackWidow: 2 key stem holes?

Friend with Razer BlackWidow: ja
Friend with Razer BlackWidow: 2,2

Should be OK, then.
7bit wrote: need a lit like
R4U125: Mod 1
R4U125: Mod 2
R4U125: Mod 3
...
R3U175: Mod n

There are too many different NEO layout graphics floating around. I think NEO is so confusing that not even NEOists know where to put the labels properly.
This is my current NEO mock-up with all keys you could ever need.
EntwurfMit3rdLayer.png
EntwurfMit3rdLayer.png (32.61 KiB) Viewed 4642 times
The third arrow is for ANSIers. Everything else is what you need for the first 3 layers of NEO. I don’t think the compose function on tab justifies another key, though. ^^ M4 would be nice as the standard SP diamond or something like that.

The characters are:
Layer1:
̂ 1234567890- ̀
xvlcwkhgfqß ́
uiaeosnrtdy
üöäpzbm,.j
Layer2:
̌ °§ℓ»«$€„“”— ̧
̃
–•
Layer3:
↻¹²³›‹¢¥‚‘’ ̊
…_[]^!<>=&ſ ̵
\/{}*?()-:@
#$|~`+%"';

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 21:22
by 7bit
Zehkul wrote:Friend with Razer BlackWidow: 11, 3... check 9, 8... check
Friend with Razer BlackWidow: 2 key stem holes?

Friend with Razer BlackWidow: ja
Friend with Razer BlackWidow: 2,2

Should be OK, then.
^^^
One center mount and two mounts 49mm left and right from the center?
Zehkul wrote: ...

The third arrow is for ANSIers. Everything else is what you need for the first 3 layers of NEO. I don’t think the compose function on tab justifies another key, though. ^^ M4 would be nice as the standard SP diamond or something like that.
...
At this low quantity I doubt we can do the arrows. For all kits exists symbol keys which cound be used and would not be so expensive compared to dedicated modifiers.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 21:30
by Zehkul
This forum doesn’t like thẽ kẽỹ dõĩñg thĩs! At least not alone. ̃̃ ̃~ ̃~ ~̃ ̃ ̃ ̃ :-( (See the empty row in my post above)

Symbol keys would be nice, yeah. Doesn’t SP have anything pointing at least a bit to the right? Seems rather standard to me.
7bit wrote:One center mount and two mounts 49mm left and right from the center?
I guess, yeah. The fourth mount on that odd spacebar is not used and there for whatever strange reason I don’t know.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 21:38
by 7bit
Zehkul wrote:...
Symbol keys would be nice, yeah. Doesn’t SP have anything pointing at least a bit to the right? Seems rather standard to me.
7bit wrote:One center mount and two mounts 49mm left and right from the center?
I guess, yeah. The fourth mount on that odd spacebar is not used and there for whatever strange reason I don’t know.
If I ask for 49mm, it will not be 50 or 48. So mught fit a bit tight if the measure is off too much.

Nevertheless, here is my comment on your layout. The arrows are doable, but they cost extra!

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:01
by Zehkul
I’ll ask for the most accurate measures he can do. :-)

Is ‚ „ ‘ “ ’ ” ̀ ̧ not enough of a code? You can copy&paste it. :P I don’t know a thing about LaTex, sorry. ^^

Doesn’t SP have a single thing in their repertoire that points to the bottom right? 20-30$ extra won’t hurt me though, my order is way beyond any reason anyway. e,e

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:04
by off
Zehkul wrote:Doesn’t SP have anything pointing at least a bit to the right? Seems rather standard to me.
Maybe the symbol that's gonna be used for delete will fit decently for this role?
Or there's also the thicker arrow outlines in all four major directions..

7b, is that even doable for a better price?
<disclaimer, I don't give a rats a** about 'neo'>

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:09
by 7bit
Zehkul wrote:I’ll ask for the most accurate measures he can do. :-)

Is ‚ „ ‘ “ ’ ” ̀ ̧ not enough of a code? You can copy&paste it. :P I don’t know a thing about LaTex, sorry. ^^

Doesn’t SP have a single thing in their repertoire that points to the bottom right? 20-30$ extra won’t hurt me though, my order is way beyond any reason anyway. e,e
OK, I will do these all with commas, hope you like it.

20-30$? LOL!
The SVG legend fees are not really relevant compared to prices for low quantities of key caps.
NEO will be the only language kit which will have dedicated modifiers!!!

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:42
by 7bit
off wrote:
Zehkul wrote:Doesn’t SP have anything pointing at least a bit to the right? Seems rather standard to me.
Maybe the symbol that's gonna be used for delete will fit decently for this role?
Or there's also the thicker arrow outlines in all four major directions..

7b, is that even doable for a better price?
<disclaimer, I don't give a rats a** about 'neo'>
I expect $200-$300 for this ....

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:43
by off
:mrgreen: Enjoy your NEO guys!

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:44
by RC-1140
Even if I don't want to buy one of the Neo Sets: Here are the requested specs for the quotation marks.

2nd Layer:
8: "\glqq"
9: "\grqq"
0: "''" (the quotes you get when you place the single quote ' twice)
3rd Layer:
8: "\glq"
9: "\grq"
0: "'" (the quotes you get when you place the single quote ' once. But note that these might result in different quotes with \usepackage[ngerman]{babel})

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:48
by 7bit
RC-1140 wrote:Even if I don't want to buy one of the Neo Sets: Here are the requested specs for the quotation marks.

2nd Layer:
8: "\glqq"
9: "\grqq"
0: "''" (the quotes you get when you place the single quote ' twice)
3rd Layer:
8: "\glq"
9: "\grq"
0: "'" (the quotes you get when you place the single quote ' once. But note that these might result in different quotes with \usepackage[ngerman]{babel})
^^^ ngerman is even worse!

If at alI use german but here I can't, because it would break other things.
Thanks for help, I give it a try.

ps: Do you know the code for the upper part of an integral sign (replacement for the long s)?


edit:

Code: Select all

! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> \myfontkey {\glqq 
                             }
l.3004 ...49.020000 86.355000) {\myfontkey{\glqq}}

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:51
by 7bit
Please order more!!!

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:51
by rindorbrot
7bit wrote:I expect $200-$300 for this ....
ouch...

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 22:51
by RC-1140
huh, dunno I would have to google it. And btw. the thingies on 4 and 5 are "\frqq" "\flqq" "\frq" and "\flq"

edit regarding your edit: wut? It's just what is said here: link What does your \myfontkey do?

interesting. the URL tag fails at unescaped umlauts in urls.

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 23:13
by Zehkul
Remember, those images were originally intended for dye subs where it doesn’t matter at all what keys you print on. :lol:
RC-1140 wrote:0: "''" (the quotes you get when you place the single quote ' twice)
What? Those are clearly angled, too.
zz.jpg
zz.jpg (11.18 KiB) Viewed 4579 times

Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 23:15
by RC-1140
Zehkul wrote:Remember, those images were originally intended for dye subs where it doesn’t matter at all what keys you print on. :lol:
RC-1140 wrote:0: "''" (the quotes you get when you place the single quote ' twice)
What? Those are clearly angled, too.
I was talking about LaTeX. If you place two single quotes behind each other, LaTeX will turn them into the english right doublequote.