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Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 00:54
by 7bit
seebart wrote: I think 7bit should have managed the entire Brexit process so in the end no one knows for sure what's going on and everybody just hopes for something. Also the actual voting would have been made similair to 7bot's ordering system based on very complex permutations to make things really confusing.
yeah!
This is how I would have set up the referendum:
Code: Select all
unsigned long int remain=0;
void brexit()
{
print "Are you reading the SUN?";
if(yes) { print "thanks for your answer!"; return; }
else { print "wanna remain?" }
if(yes) { remain++; print "thanks for your answer!"; }
else { print "You sure?!";
if(yes) { print ":roll:"; remain--; }
else { print ":cool:"; remain++; }
}
}
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 01:08
by webwit
Hmmm, seems rigged. Would convince the algorithm-illiterate though, such as Muirium.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 01:09
by emdude
webwit wrote: This is again the narrative that the brainless voted out and the mindful, intelligent and moral people voted in. Can we have a flood limit on links to the Guardian now? It's the Fox News of the left.
Edit: All these scientists are not being scientific if they take this stand. They dramatically present the issue as white, but the issue is clearly not black or white, it's most definitely gray. A true scientist explores and discusses this grayness and its facets. It disappoints me that Stephen Hawking tried to use his authority to manipulate people towards his partisan white stand, his narcissism triumphs the scientist. A true scientist and not a manipulator would have presented the full grayness and how he added it up to arrive at his final vote.
I agree that the issue is a complicated one, but considering that research in the UK is propped up by EU funding to a decent degree and has benefited from the collaboration of an international science culture, it is understandable why a
great majority of UK scientists were against the referendum. While I don't think this will be a completely insurmountable challenge to the EU scientific community, it will probably and needlessly constrain UK scientists.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 01:13
by webwit
So they want free money for research, and for a good living, and fuck the
truck drivers' case which makes things gray, lets pretend and promote things are white. That's not very emphatic. They deserved that vote for their lack of empathy alone.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 01:31
by Muirium
webwit wrote: Hmmm, seems rigged. Would convince the algorithm-illiterate though, such as Muirium.
Al Gore? Sure, I trust him. Checks out!
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 01:39
by emdude
webwit wrote: So they want free money for research, and for a good living, and fuck the
truck drivers' case which makes things gray, lets pretend and promote things are white. That's not very emphatic. They deserved that vote for their lack of empathy alone.
Yes, I suppose researchers certainly were thinking of the well-being of their work and careers. But that money was in the form of grants meant solely for research. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you, but I don't think that that money ended up lining their pockets or anything, or that it was going to anyone else. Now that those funds will likely disappear or become much harder to get, it will only hurt scientific research for both the UK and the EU.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 01:55
by webwit
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a net amount went to the UK for research, other countries' research suffered and money from those countries went to UK research?
Of course it's not like that. The UK pays a huge amount of contribution to the EU, like other countries. The EU then subsidizes research across the EU. If the UK leaves the EU and doesn't pay the contribution fee, it's up to the UK how to spend that money, such as on research, or, if they choose to, on free chips instead. The scientists, like the financial sector, seem to be afraid of the uncertainty.
That's human. It's even human, if not scientific, to promote your case and ridicule the other case, for personal benefit. But if Hawking uses his authority as a scientist and portrait the other case as stupidity and immoral, using this status, while the reality is gray and his stance is partisan, then it's foul. He should do better.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:25
by vivalarevolución
On the bright side, Britain should rally the Commonwealth together again. Then we could have the Commonwealth, USA, Russia, and China all vying for global power. More diversity and competition, that's what it's all about.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:26
by jacobolus
“Rally the Commonwealth” for a series of cricket matches, I presume?
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:40
by vivalarevolución
jacobolus wrote: “Rally the Commonwealth” for a series of cricket matches, I presume?
No. I should be more specific. Restarts attempts at global hegonomy. Get the old gang back together--Britain, India, Australia, Canada, South Africa, whoever else--and get cracking on more international power and influence! Screw the EU, bring back the Empire! Woo!
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:46
by fohat
vivalarevolución wrote:
Restarts attempts at global hegonomy. Get the old gang back together--Britain, India, Australia, Canada, South Africa, whoever else--and get cracking on more international power and influence!
That would be a pretty strong group.
And they could bank in the Caribbean.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:54
by vivalarevolución
fohat wrote: vivalarevolución wrote:
Restarts attempts at global hegonomy. Get the old gang back together--Britain, India, Australia, Canada, South Africa, whoever else--and get cracking on more international power and influence!
That would be a pretty strong group.
And they could bank in the Caribbean.
Bring in Jamaica, the Bahamas, British Virgin Islands, and various other Caribbean islands that I am forgetting as part of the Commonwealth, and there are plenty of places to hide your wealth!
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:57
by webwit
Not the old empire! The US.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 02:58
by jacobolus
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 03:06
by webwit
Nice silly walking Cleese. Who voted Brexit and said Juncker should be slaughtered for being an enemy of democracy.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 03:06
by vivalarevolución
Gawd, I love cartoons. Gets the message across and entertaining as well.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 03:28
by webwit
Not really though. It doesn't portrait the Brexit camp, but the aristocracy. Should have been like this:
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 05:37
by emdude
webwit wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a net amount went to the UK for research, other countries' research suffered and money from those countries went to UK research?
Of course it's not like that. The UK pays a huge amount of contribution to the EU, like other countries. The EU then subsidizes research across the EU. If the UK leaves the EU and doesn't pay the contribution fee, it's up to the UK how to spend that money, such as on research, or, if they choose to, on free chips instead. The scientists, like the financial sector, seem to be afraid of the uncertainty.
Well, I hope that the UK decides to put a sufficient amount of money into the sciences then.
webwit wrote: That's human. It's even human, if not scientific, to promote your case and ridicule the other case, for personal benefit. But if Hawking uses his authority as a scientist and
portrait the other case as stupidity and immoral, using this status, while the reality is gray and his stance is partisan, then it's foul. He should do better.
Do you have a source for the italicized part; when I mentioned to Hawking supporting the remain compaign, I referred to the letter he and 150 other scientists wrote to The Times. The Times will not display the full version of it, unfortunately. It would be disheartening if he really did say that.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 08:02
by 7bit
vivalarevolución wrote: jacobolus wrote: “Rally the Commonwealth” for a series of cricket matches, I presume?
No. I should be more specific. Restarts attempts at global hegonomy. Get the old gang back together--Britain, India, Australia, Canada, South Africa, whoever else--and get cracking on more international power and influence! Screw the EU, bring back the Empire! Woo!
Colonialism is a concept of the past!
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 09:43
by Wodan
It's more likely that Scotland will break out of the UK than seeing UK raise back to it's former colonial power. I'm sure India and South Africa give negative fucks about the UK (India recently bought tons of fighter jets from France!) and Australia made a political decision for French submarines recently in one of the larges military deals of the recent history. Canada and the EU are hopefully soon signing the CETA treaty to seal their common market. I don't see much opportunities for the UK to do better on their own.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 12:15
by webwit
emdude wrote: Do you have a source for the italicized part; when I mentioned to Hawking supporting the remain compaign, I referred to the letter he and 150 other scientists wrote to The Times. The Times will not display the full version of it, unfortunately. It would be disheartening if he really did say that.
I don't think they said it in the Times, but the narrative was pretty clear. For example:
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/economy ... .cnnmoney/
And afterwards:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/06/ ... out-brexit
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 15:26
by seebart
It will be very interesting to see if and when David Cameron or his successor is willing to legally submit Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, formally the UK has not left the EU until this is not dealt with. Of course Brussels is furious over this.
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the ... rticle-50/
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/24/bri ... eferendum/
Hmm this is interesting:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 16:30
by fohat
In sales we have "buyer's remorse" and there is a rule in the US that either party has 3 business days to rescind certain types of contracts.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 16:36
by seebart
fohat wrote:
In sales we have "buyer's remorse" and there is a rule in the US that either party has 3 business days to rescind certain types of contracts.
Sure I know what you mean, common policy. But this is not sales. Although some may argue that quite a few Brexit voters had their vote "sold" to them under false pretense.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 16:58
by 7bit
I will sue the British government, should they violate my patent on rolling deadlines!
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 17:06
by flabbergast
seebart wrote: fohat wrote:
In sales we have "buyer's remorse" and there is a rule in the US that either party has 3 business days to rescind certain types of contracts.
Sure I know what you mean, common policy. But this is not sales. Although some may argue that quite a few Brexit voters had their vote "sold" to them under false pretense.
This. The 'leave' side
basically takes back, within 48 hours of the result, the two key points that were identified as most resonating with the public as reasons for leaving. I'm sure there's a lesson somewhere...
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 17:24
by Findecanor
Over here in Sweden, political analysts are saying that the EU is at risk at getting more federalistic. Sweden needs the UK on its side against the more federalist forces in EU politics.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 20:57
by matt3o
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:16
by seebart
That underlines what I have read before that such important matters should not be left to "emotional and impulsive" voters. Possibly the the voters were not sufficiently informed? Were Boris Johnson and others so shrewd as to count on these votes and this result? Not sure.
Posted: 25 Jun 2016, 21:23
by webwit
It's a bullshit story. I've been reading some of the sentiment in comment sections on the Guardian, BBC and shining examples of journalism such as the Daily Mail and The Sun. The sentiment among Brexit voters is that Remain nor the EU has learned anything and they were absolutely right. I.e. Remain sings the racist/idiot/anti old-age/less democracy song stronger than ever in the Guardian, instead of listening and taking Brexit's problems seriously. And the lovely European partners got together undemocratically to talk about how to hurt the UK best, instead of wondering why they're leaving. Some friends. No one is talking about regret in the Brexit media comment sections, just about poor losers (among which the media which selectively gets idiots in front of a camera).
