deskthority

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually like the switches a bit more in their 'wore in' state. I refurbished the numpad, and find them, now, far too harsh and loud. The click on release sends a very jarring ping through the switch, and is not as nice as the much more subdued feel of the switches in their original state. After that, I just resoldered the other switches without changing anything, and the switches were still sharper on the tactility than before.

These switches age intensely. I have no doubt the original switches feel TOTALLY different than they do after sitting in the board for over 20 years. If you want a delicate typing experience with borderline linear switches, with a very delicate tactility, I would suggest leaving them alone.

If you want a very loud pingy keyboard with jarring upstroke tactility, then refurbish them.

I want to point out I am using the MX mount variant found in chicony keyboards, but I don't know if it makes a difference. With how vastly these switches can vary, it isn't a surprise people have such polarized and conflicting accounts of them.

Regardless of whether you like them or not, one thing is clear. They are very unique.

I've been doing a very large project on them for a long time. These switches are MUCH more complicated than meets the eye. Hopefully I can present you with some of my findings in a video soon. Regardless, I'm starting to understand why these switches are so divisive.

All very interesting, great discussion! I went back and read the earlier comments after playing with my Futaba keyboards a bit more, and I believe the idea of flattening the rubber mat by applying pressure to the slider is right on the money. I have three Futaba boards--an Ancer which I bought new, a Leading Edge AK-1012, which has enough use on it to wear the printing off many of the caps, and a Televideo TPC-II, which is new in the box. The Ancer has been used lightly but consistently since the mid-'90s, and is very consistent in feel and sound from key to key. I'm pretty sure it hasn't changed since new, but that's a subjective judgement. The Leading Edge must have been heavily used early in its life, and has been stored unused in my closet for the last twenty-some years. It's also pretty consistent in feel and sound. The Televideo, on the other hand, varies a lot from key to key. It has been stored since new, as a spare for my old portable PC, and I can change the feel on the quieter, less clicky keys by applying pressure to the slider as described. They definitely become more clicky after that, especially on the downstroke. And that would be consistent with the rubber mat flattening out as described. The Televideo, by the way, has a much more resonant sound than the other two, probably due to the case design. Just for grins I tried applying pressure to a couple keys on the Ancer and I could not hear or feel any difference, which confirms my feeling that it hasn't changed much if at all since new.

I'm not sure it's the rubber mate, but it might well be. Regardless, it's something that's warping the plate spring. There are also switches in which the plate spring doesn't invert AT ALL though, even if you take the switch bottom off, so that's separate from the rubber mate.

Here's the best view I've found of what's inside the Futaba switches:

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/review/1274536

Polecat wrote: Here's the best view I've found of what's inside the Futaba switches:

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/review/1274536

Nice, thanks for sharing. I'm really enjoying these clicky Futabas right now.

Datacomp DFK-777F:

seebart wrote:

Polecat wrote: Here's the best view I've found of what's inside the Futaba switches:

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/review/1274536

Nice, thanks for sharing. I'm really enjoying these clicky Futabas right now.

Datacomp DFK-777F:

Wow, nice, I had no idea those came with Futabas. I had a caseless DFK-777 that I used as a blue Alps donor, still have the PC board here someplace.

Polecat wrote:

seebart wrote:

Polecat wrote: Here's the best view I've found of what's inside the Futaba switches:

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/review/1274536

Nice, thanks for sharing. I'm really enjoying these clicky Futabas right now.

Datacomp DFK-777F:

Wow, nice, I had no idea those came with Futabas. I had a caseless DFK-777 that I used as a blue Alps donor, still have the PC board here someplace.

I'd say clicky Futabas are easily one of the most interesting switches I've tried in a long time, when I saw this thread I was sceptical but I specifically got this Datacomp from IKSLM to find out turns out OP and many of you are right. The unusual switch characteristics in this solid Datacomp case are very satisfying to me, I never get into the technical details of the switch that's Daniel's and Chyros dept. I did try the hydrogen peroxide heat method for the first time with these keycaps and got insane results in a mixed sort of way but that belongs in another thread.

Please understand My English is not good.

I have never used Futaba Keyboard before. So I wanted to try this switch,
have been looking for a lot of places for a long time

I found a Futaba Switch that in an old electronics store!
finally succeeded in purchasing a completely new Futaba switch that was not used!
I purchased 125 switches that are compatible with Cherry MX keycap to create a new keyboard.

Does anyone want to buy a new Futaba Switch? The price is expensive, but it is completely new. And a very small amount remains.

I am guessing that you do not have the part number for these switches?

I managed to get those NOS, but it's the grey ones I need more of.

What is your price and what is "a small amount"?

There are about 300 to 500 switches all that can not be found anymore after it has been exhausted.

price of a switch is about $ 1. I paid about $ 120 to buy them.

miracle_hoshi wrote: Please understand My English is not good.

I have never used Futaba Keyboard before. So I wanted to try this switch,
have been looking for a lot of places for a long time

I found a Futaba Switch that in an old electronics store!
finally succeeded in purchasing a completely new Futaba switch that was not used!

I purchased 125 switches that are compatible with Cherry MX keycap to create a new keyboard.

Does anyone want to buy a new Futaba Switch? The price is expensive, but it is completely new. And a very small amount remains.

Nice find!!
I have been thinking of sacrificing one of my Futaba keyboards to make a TKL layout. Now you gave me another option.
(I actually don't need them desperately. So If anybody wants them, go ahead!)

They're also on aliexpress: http://s.aliexpress.com/jYjIrAzq
and Taobao: https://world.taobao.com/item/540513185273.htm

purdobol wrote: They're also on aliexpress: http://s.aliexpress.com/jYjIrAzq
and Taobao: https://world.taobao.com/item/540513185273.htm

They are not Futaba.

Ahh my bad

purdobol wrote: They're also on aliexpress: http://s.aliexpress.com/jYjIrAzq
and Taobao: https://world.taobao.com/item/540513185273.htm

No. The SMK switch is similar to Futaba, but different.

Pretty sure the SMK is similar only in visible stem design, and that is pretty much where the similarity ends.

I don't know how long these graphs will last, but while they're still up:

https://plot.ly/~haata/397

Wow. You can actually see how messed up these things get.

There's a very decent Futaba board on eBay at the moment.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Leadin ... 2974956717

balotz wrote: There's a very decent Futaba board on eBay at the moment.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Leadin ... 2974956717

What makes it decent - ONLY the switches and nothing else?

Are the keys double-shot or dye-subbed?

Need to know more details about this type of Keyboard please .

Elrick wrote:

balotz wrote: There's a very decent Futaba board on eBay at the moment.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Leadin ... 2974956717

What makes it decent - ONLY the switches and nothing else?

Are the keys double-shot or dye-subbed?

Need to know more details about this type of Keyboard please .

The board is very well made. I have a few futaba boards and this one is the most sturdy. It's sold now anyhow..

balotz wrote: The board is very well made. I have a few futaba boards and this one is the most sturdy. It's sold now anyhow..

Good, cheap keyboards disappear off Flebay pretty quickly .

But what type of key-caps are used with this keyboard, pad printed, double-shot plastic or dye-sublimated ?

These switches are very odd.

They do provide hysteresis, but only one time, and the hysteresis does not work as you'd expect. The upwards kick on release should occur when the inverting spring snaps back. The contacts close following the tactile drop. If you then ease off on the slider, the contacts will open something like halfway between the actuation point and the release kick. Once the contacts open, you can then increase the pressure and they will close again: the hysteresis is defeated once you've allowed the contacts to open.

While it's true that the inverting spring is not a contact (unlike Olivetti and Micro Switch where the inverting spring is the movable contact), I would still expect it to hold the contacts closed until it snaps back, but it doesn't. The contacts can re-open and then re-close even when the inverting spring is still held down.

Then there's the question of how you get linear ones. I have a NOS one from a new arcade button that is so smooth that there's no way to tell that it was ever a tactile switch. So, I sacrificed it. And inside? Well, it looks identical to the clicky switches. So it seems to be so badly worn out that it's perfectly linear. Well, was.

Elrick wrote:

balotz wrote: The board is very well made. I have a few futaba boards and this one is the most sturdy. It's sold now anyhow..

Good, cheap keyboards disappear off Flebay pretty quickly .

But what type of key-caps are used with this keyboard, pad printed, double-shot plastic or dye-sublimated ?

Good question, the keycaps on this board are slightly odd. I need to do the acetone test, as they have some of the properties of PBT (no yellowing, not doubleshot, not pad printed). However even the unused keys have a smooth texture, so maybe POM?

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: These switches are very odd.

And inside? Well, it looks identical to the clicky switches. So it seems to be so badly worn out that it's perfectly linear. Well, was.

Unusual in that this may the FIRST keyboard switch that starts out as a "Tactile" but through extensive usage, it then becomes a "Linear" switch.

This may actually become a much sought after switch, it changes itself into something 'better' .

Elrick wrote:

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: These switches are very odd.

And inside? Well, it looks identical to the clicky switches. So it seems to be so badly worn out that it's perfectly linear. Well, was.

Unusual in that this may the FIRST keyboard switch that starts out as a "Tactile" but through extensive usage, it then becomes a "Linear" switch.

This may actually become a much sought after switch, it changes itself into something 'better' .

I agree that when they wear out, they are 'better'. My first impression was on a board thoroughly worn out, and I was absolutely in love with it, and I don't even particularly like linear. They just felt so smooth and nice to type on. However, after I started restoring their tactility and click, they start becoming more and more unpleasant. Very weird switch.

Some people think their 'linear' wore in state feels 'spongy', and I can see where they are coming from, but I associate 'spongy' with a gritty feel to the spring, which these do not have. There is also a second overlapping resistance after actuation that is reminiscent of clears, with how the actuation force increases non-linearly. I can only assume this is because of hyperextension or because of the rubber mat, or perhaps a bit of both.

Either way, they have a feel, in both states, that is very unique. The first thing anyone will think when using them is, "this is different".

Of course, then you need the whole keyboard to wear consistently — how likely is that?