deskthority

Techno Trousers wrote: Bolt modding started out as a way to save badly abused Model Ms from the scrap heap, and somehow morphed into a desirable thing to have.

Now it seems bolt modding is desired by the uninformed.

I am still using a 1989 Model-M with no bolt modding or screws installed. It's pure unadulterated fun, using a keyboard as old as this.

Not ALL Model-M's were abused nor falling apart when bought a second or third time around.

A credit to the previous owners who didn't keep it locked up in a steel shipping container for many years.

There's a presumption by some that all M's will sooner or later require a bolt mod. I'm not experienced enough with them to say whether that's true or not, but that's why it's a desirable thing to have.

You literally never know. I bought a new-in-box SSK from 1992 (thanks Cindy!) and over half of the rivets were broken, including almost all of them at one end. Clearly, the box had taken a hard fall and landed on one end at some point along the way.

On the other hand, I bought a 1390131 from 1986 (used but not abused) within the last 5 years, shipped from across several states, and there was not one single broken rivet. Go figure.

pr0ximity wrote: There's a presumption by some that all M's will sooner or later require a bolt mod. I'm not experienced enough with them to say whether that's true or not, but that's why it's a desirable thing to have.

On a long enough timeline, every Model M gets a bolt mod

It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

pbw wrote: It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

Awesome!

Ellipse, send 'em some sample units, it's the perfect time!

pbw wrote:It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

I gotta admit I wasn’t expecting such a serious, professional review from Linus. Not to say he is not a pro reviewer, but more like... I thought his particular “style” would not fit the grandiosity of such keyboard.

I was pleasantly surprised and, although I’m not a fan of his, I wholly enjoyed the video. I now believe it wouldn’t be a bad idea to send him a Ellipse Model F to review. He might make it justice.


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I think its because Linus actually gave a shit about the thing he's reviewing. I imagine the usual crap he reviews gets very boring after you do it several hundred times. A Model M review was refreshing to see for us, and probably for him as well.
Ellipse you should definitely send him a review unit, even if ts not 100% complete yet, there are definitely thousands more potential orders out there

Get a model F in his hands!

I am fed up of the mecanical keyboard normies thinking that the M is like the best thing ever , and they never even mention the F or beasmspring.

andrewjoy wrote: Get a model F in his hands!

I am fed up of the mecanical keyboard normies thinking that the M is like the best thing ever , and they never even mention the F or beasmspring.

Fking normies, on my board reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

pbw wrote: It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

... aaaaand I'm disappointed — not that I had high hopes to begin with, anyway. The guy's review wasn't well ordered in a narrative sense, presented two major errors as fact (confusing the usage of a membrane with a mechanical keyboard per se and stating that LexMark only produced rubberdomes... with the added implication that that's what Unicomp produces as well) and was lacking in regards to the history of the Model M keyboards. Thomas' review of the Model M keyboard history was way, way better.

depletedvespene wrote: Thomas' review of the Model M keyboard history was way, way better.

Agreed.

Also Linus is mostly about himself and like all people who think they know about EVERYTHING in the world today, he comes off as ignorant, which is quite normal for those in that age group.

When you're a young male you think everything that comes out of your mouth is the god's honest TRUTH and that is where they all fail, particularly trying to re-count actual history.

Rare individuals excel at re-calling CORRECT historical content and it would be far better left to them, when reciting the past of our much beloved Model-M's.

depletedvespene wrote:

pbw wrote: It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

... aaaaand I'm disappointed — not that I had high hopes to begin with, anyway. The guy's review wasn't well ordered in a narrative sense, presented two major errors as fact (confusing the usage of a membrane with a mechanical keyboard per se and stating that LexMark only produced rubberdomes... with the added implication that that's what Unicomp produces as well) and was lacking in regards to the history of the Model M keyboards. Thomas' review of the Model M keyboard history was way, way better.

I mean you have to keep in mind that Thomas is a keyboard guy, while Linus...is Linus.

Dingster wrote:

depletedvespene wrote:

pbw wrote: It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

... aaaaand I'm disappointed — not that I had high hopes to begin with, anyway. The guy's review wasn't well ordered in a narrative sense, presented two major errors as fact (confusing the usage of a membrane with a mechanical keyboard per se and stating that LexMark only produced rubberdomes... with the added implication that that's what Unicomp produces as well) and was lacking in regards to the history of the Model M keyboards. Thomas' review of the Model M keyboard history was way, way better.

I mean you have to keep in mind that Thomas is a keyboard guy, while Linus...is Linus.

Not that I want to be a pedant (it comes to me naturally), but this guy isn't Linus — that honor corresponds to a certain Finnish guy.

Well Linus from LTT is just another youtube-whore - sorry for the harsh words, but making videos with almost NO educational content, blabbling around "subscibe, share, like!!!!!!" with sponsor seconds at the beginning and the end just puts him into the same category as the usual instagram-influencer-girlie... I could puke verytime I see him. Even thinking of him as "the Linus" jsut gives me a bad feeling, so I just HAD to start this rant. Sorry.

I love most of his videos to be honest, his server videos, office moving vlogs, and scrapyard wars series are really entertaining. He's just not a keyboard enthusiast like Thomas is.
At least Linus is getting the Model Ms name out there more as they deserve more appreciation

I know the certain Finnish guy, but Linus' name is still Linus lol

depletedvespene wrote:

pbw wrote: It's up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7wmMZmMinM

... aaaaand I'm disappointed — not that I had high hopes to begin with, anyway. The guy's review wasn't well ordered in a narrative sense, presented two major errors as fact (confusing the usage of a membrane with a mechanical keyboard per se and stating that LexMark only produced rubberdomes... with the added implication that that's what Unicomp produces as well) and was lacking in regards to the history of the Model M keyboards. Thomas' review of the Model M keyboard history was way, way better.

What did he get wrong specificly? Doesn't the model M use a membrane?
Also, Linus never said Lexmark only made rubberdomes. He could perhaps have been clearer on the fact that they still made both types thought.

I found it to be a great review, well written and presented. I much prefer this style of video over many of their other reviews. It would be great to see more reviews on older keyboards from them.

The Model M uses a membrane but many people still consider it mechanical. Whether it is actually mechanical or not is a point of contention. On the one hand, it uses collapsing springs which give it mechanical action, but the sensing is done via membrane. One could argue that it is indeed not mechanical, but actually membrane based on that. In a similar vein, one could argue that rubber domes are mechanical if Model Ms are, since they use a collapsing dome which gives it mechanical action, but membrane sensing.

Craweth wrote: What did he get wrong specificly? Doesn't the model M use a membrane?

Yes, but using a membrane isn't the one defining feature of "mechanical" vs. "non-mechanical". There are RD keyboards that use a PCB, but that doesn't make them mechanical.

Craweth wrote: Also, Linus never said Lexmark only made rubberdomes.

He totally did! At 4:48, he says: "Actually, some Model Ms do use rubber domes, but more on that later." Then, at 6:01, he states the following: "In 1990, IBM sold part of its keyboard manufacturing division to what would become LexMark. Lexmark continued to make these keyboards for IBM, but more cheaper [sic]. This Model M, from 1995, demonstrates some of the changes, including one good one: drainage holes, to protect it from its arch-nemesis, water! Along with several... less good [sic] ones, like a lighter backplate and plastic shell, a fixed, instead of removable, cable, a monochrome legend on the keycaps aaand... rubberdome switches. To be clear there, good rubber domes, but still.".

So, yeah, he totally said that Lexmark-made Model M keyboards contained rubber domes instead of buckling springs.

depletedvespene wrote:

Craweth wrote: What did he get wrong specificly? Doesn't the model M use a membrane?

Yes, but using a membrane isn't the one defining feature of "mechanical" vs. "non-mechanical". There are RD keyboards that use a PCB, but that doesn't make them mechanical.

Craweth wrote: Also, Linus never said Lexmark only made rubberdomes.

He totally did! At 4:48, he says: "Actually, some Model Ms do use rubber domes, but more on that later." Then, at 6:01, he states the following: "In 1990, IBM sold part of its keyboard manufacturing division to what would become LexMark. Lexmark continued to make these keyboards for IBM, but more cheaper [sic]. This Model M, from 1995, demonstrates some of the changes, including one good one: drainage holes, to protect it from its arch-nemesis, water! Along with several... less good [sic] ones, like a lighter backplate and plastic shell, a fixed, instead of removable, cable, a monochrome legend on the keycaps aaand... rubberdome switches. To be clear there, good rubber domes, but still.".

So, yeah, he totally said that Lexmark-made Model M keyboards contained rubber domes instead of buckling springs.

He never stated all Lexmark models contained rubber domes though, he said "This Model M from 1995 demonstrates some of the changes"
'Some' being the key word there.

wobbled wrote:

depletedvespene wrote:

Craweth wrote: What did he get wrong specificly? Doesn't the model M use a membrane?

Yes, but using a membrane isn't the one defining feature of "mechanical" vs. "non-mechanical". There are RD keyboards that use a PCB, but that doesn't make them mechanical.

Craweth wrote: Also, Linus never said Lexmark only made rubberdomes.

He totally did! At 4:48, he says: "Actually, some Model Ms do use rubber domes, but more on that later." Then, at 6:01, he states the following: "In 1990, IBM sold part of its keyboard manufacturing division to what would become LexMark. Lexmark continued to make these keyboards for IBM, but more cheaper [sic]. This Model M, from 1995, demonstrates some of the changes, including one good one: drainage holes, to protect it from its arch-nemesis, water! Along with several... less good [sic] ones, like a lighter backplate and plastic shell, a fixed, instead of removable, cable, a monochrome legend on the keycaps aaand... rubberdome switches. To be clear there, good rubber domes, but still.".

So, yeah, he totally said that Lexmark-made Model M keyboards contained rubber domes instead of buckling springs.

He never stated all Lexmark models contained rubber domes though, he said "This Model M from 1995 demonstrates some of the changes"
'Some' being the key word there.

Still it was slightly misleading

"Some" being the keyword for the changes made on "keyboards made for IBM by LexMark". So, yeah, he DID say LexMark units were RD.

Just to drive this conversation into a different direction ... I will send the F62 to Thomas (Chyrosran22) for review as soon as I have it in my hands. As I am also based in Europe and having ordered it with low serial number, he should have it very early on.
I already started the conversation with Thomas a few weeks back and he is happy to review the F62 (New Edition).
He is very known in the keyboard community and even if Linus has a much larger audience, the enthusiasts for keyboards are definitely not the majority. For some weird reasons, I think his audience has a fable for RGB flashing gaming keyboards - I am likely wrong here. I also like some other reviewers like LGR or 8bitguy.

depletedvespene wrote: "Some" being the keyword for the changes made on "keyboards made for IBM by LexMark". So, yeah, he DID say LexMark units were RD.

I agree that his choice of wording could have been better here, maybe the writer got confused. But he never said that all these changes applies to all the keyboards.
Anyway, I don't see that this matters to anything at all. The review was good, not flawless.

depletedvespene wrote: "Some" being the keyword for the changes made on "keyboards made for IBM by LexMark". So, yeah, he DID say LexMark units were RD.

No, he said the board he had incorporates some of the cheaper changes, rubber dome being one of them. Quote me where he stated all Lexmarks were rd?

wobbled wrote:

depletedvespene wrote: "Some" being the keyword for the changes made on "keyboards made for IBM by LexMark". So, yeah, he DID say LexMark units were RD.

No, he said the board he had incorporates some of the cheaper changes, rubber dome being one of them. Quote me where he stated all Lexmarks were rd?

Its not that he said it, but the way that he said it might mislead some

wobbled wrote:

depletedvespene wrote: "Some" being the keyword for the changes made on "keyboards made for IBM by LexMark". So, yeah, he DID say LexMark units were RD.

No, he said the board he had incorporates some of the cheaper changes, rubber dome being one of them. Quote me where he stated all Lexmarks were rd?

Please read the transcription again.

depletedvespene wrote:

wobbled wrote:

depletedvespene wrote: "Some" being the keyword for the changes made on "keyboards made for IBM by LexMark". So, yeah, he DID say LexMark units were RD.

No, he said the board he had incorporates some of the cheaper changes, rubber dome being one of them. Quote me where he stated all Lexmarks were rd?

Please read the transcription again.

"This Model M, from 1995, demonstrates some of the changes,"
Again, he never implied all Lexmark M's were like this.