deskthority

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:29**

wobbled wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:24
ddrfraser1 wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:21 Oh cool! I totally did not know you could get an industrial Grey case from them. Well, I know what I’m buying next! I’ll have one of these $750 gems in no time, for about 30 bucks...
Don't forget the LED overlay sticker too!

Ah yes, good call. Already have a spare fake badge.

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:32**

In theory it's fraud, but then again, if you're going to spend £800 on a keyboard without doing thorough research, you've only got yourself to blame really.
If you can prove to ebay that it's fraudulent (good luck) then they'd take it down, but the question is do they care enough about an obscure, hobbyist item.
Of course the buyer could just play dumb and say he didn't know and had bought the keyboard like that from someone else. We'll see a lot of these after Model F's have been reproduced, and the once in demand industrials can be easily cloned for about £30.

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:34**

I really don't get who that guy thinks he's going to sell to. The only one who would pay that much for a keyboard is an enthusiast, but all the enthusiasts already know about the fake badges, the part numbers and the replacement cases. The seller is clearly a collector themselves or they wouldn't have found the necessary parts and put them together. Why try to rip off the community?

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:36**

wobbled wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:32 In theory it's fraud, but then again, if you're going to spend £800 on a keyboard without doing thorough research, you've only got yourself to blame really.
If you can prove to ebay that it's fraudulent (good luck) then they'd take it down, but the question is do they care enough about an obscure, hobbyist item.
Of course the buyer could just play dumb and say he didn't know and had bought the keyboard like that from someone else. We'll see a lot of these after Model F's have been reproduced, and the once in demand industrials can be easily cloned for about £30.

It's sad, really, I've got a 91' industrial model m and unfortunately it's the one people seem to be cloning, there going to be worth nothing soon and you wont be able to distinguish them from the real ones, such a shame that people have to do this stuff how much of a low life do they have to be?!?

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:46**

he replied,

The keyboard was bought initially from a Swiss collector that informed me that the keyboard is original but the sticker badge had been replaced due to normal tear.
i had no reason not to believe him then
i don't think He was lying though because i had also bought a unicomp grey case for another model m(not industrial) that belonged to a friend of mine who saw my industrial and wanted to make his own, look like mine and that case is not the same as the one on my industrial.the one on my industrial is much sturdier

i can see the gap that you refer to but i don't know if this a sign that the keyboard is fake.Maybe due to various types of model m's the tolerances where greater in mine

I haven't opened the keyboard so i cannot tell if there have been any modifications to it or not

there is no conspiracy here, i bought the specific keyboard as an original industrial , and i m selling it like one
i don't know if it is original or not but i think it is

ps if you happen to know a way to check the authenticity of the keyboard please let me know so i can do it

kind regards
Tim

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:48**

1394946 wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:36
wobbled wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:32 In theory it's fraud, but then again, if you're going to spend £800 on a keyboard without doing thorough research, you've only got yourself to blame really.
If you can prove to ebay that it's fraudulent (good luck) then they'd take it down, but the question is do they care enough about an obscure, hobbyist item.
Of course the buyer could just play dumb and say he didn't know and had bought the keyboard like that from someone else. We'll see a lot of these after Model F's have been reproduced, and the once in demand industrials can be easily cloned for about £30.

It's sad, really, I've got a 91' industrial model m and unfortunately it's the one people seem to be cloning, there going to be worth nothing soon and you wont be able to distinguish them from the real ones, such a shame that people have to do this stuff how much of a low life do they have to be?!?

It'll still be worth something to the collectors mate (which tend to be fucking loaded e.g. spending 2k on a beamspring WTF?!?)
You'd just have to photograph it inside and out in great detail to prove its legitimacy - a picture of the model number on the metal back plate would probably do the trick.
These replicas, for most people, are just to get an industrial style Model M because they look great.
...I really wish someone would reproduce the black LED overlay found on the black m13's, that plus the black badge, black cable, and possibly black keycaps would be stunning.

Posted: **28 Jul 2020, 23:57**

1394946 wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:46 he replied,

The keyboard was bought initially from a Swiss collector that informed me that the keyboard is original but the sticker badge had been replaced due to normal tear.
i had no reason not to believe him then
i don't think He was lying though because i had also bought a unicomp grey case for another model m(not industrial) that belonged to a friend of mine who saw my industrial and wanted to make his own, look like mine and that case is not the same as the one on my industrial.the one on my industrial is much sturdier

i can see the gap that you refer to but i don't know if this a sign that the keyboard is fake.Maybe due to various types of model m's the tolerances where greater in mine

I haven't opened the keyboard so i cannot tell if there have been any modifications to it or not

there is no conspiracy here, i bought the specific keyboard as an original industrial , and i m selling it like one
i don't know if it is original or not but i think it is

ps if you happen to know a way to check the authenticity of the keyboard please let me know so i can do it

kind regards
Tim

I'd be interested to see what other peoples take on this is, because to me it sounds like BS.

The industrial cases from Unicomp are pretty much identical to the IBM made Industrial cases minus some slight imperfections on the back which seem to differ slightly on each case (I've owned both at the same time, and noticed no difference in sturdiness once the keyboard was fully assembled)
Not to mention the cases Unicomp sell are genuine industrial cases anyway that are simply leftovers from the Lexmark days where they sold Model M's with the IBM logo still. As far as I know they don't produce these, so once they're gone - they're gone.

If he had removed the identifying model number sticker I'd be both more suspicious, yet find it easier to believe as well. The fact the model number on this matches known grey lexmarks with blue & white IBM stickers doesn't really help his story.
Unless he can open it up and we see that the internals are genuine 'industrial' parts with corresponding model number and it's just the case that was replaced by Unicomp with some random ass model number sticker on we can't be sure what it actually is.

To ask £800 for a product that a dude in Switzerland promised you it was real is ludicrous.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:00**

wobbled wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:57
1394946 wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:46 he replied,

The keyboard was bought initially from a Swiss collector that informed me that the keyboard is original but the sticker badge had been replaced due to normal tear.
i had no reason not to believe him then
i don't think He was lying though because i had also bought a unicomp grey case for another model m(not industrial) that belonged to a friend of mine who saw my industrial and wanted to make his own, look like mine and that case is not the same as the one on my industrial.the one on my industrial is much sturdier

i can see the gap that you refer to but i don't know if this a sign that the keyboard is fake.Maybe due to various types of model m's the tolerances where greater in mine

I haven't opened the keyboard so i cannot tell if there have been any modifications to it or not

there is no conspiracy here, i bought the specific keyboard as an original industrial , and i m selling it like one
i don't know if it is original or not but i think it is

ps if you happen to know a way to check the authenticity of the keyboard please let me know so i can do it

kind regards
Tim
I'd be interested to see what other peoples take on this is, because to me it sounds like BS.

The industrial cases from Unicomp are pretty much identical to the IBM made Industrial cases minus some slight imperfections on the back which seem to differ slightly on each case (I've owned both at the same time, and noticed no difference in sturdiness once the keyboard was fully assembled)
Not to mention the cases Unicomp sell are genuine industrial cases anyway that are simply leftovers from the Lexmark days where they sold Model M's with the IBM logo still. As far as I know they don't produce these, so once they're gone - they're gone.

If he had removed the identifying model number sticker I'd be both more suspicious, yet find it easier to believe as well. The fact the model number on this matches known grey lexmarks with blue & white IBM stickers doesn't really help his story.
Unless he can open it up and we see that the internals are genuine 'industrial' parts with corresponding model number and it's just the case that was replaced by Unicomp with some random ass model number sticker on we can't be sure what it actually is.

To ask £800 for a product that a dude in Switzerland promised you it was real is ludicrous.

I agree, I have given him proof that it was a fake and will forward his reply

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:08**

This is his reply,

i was selling the same keyboard , but on March i decided to end the listing and later changed my mind.
regarding the model number , how can one be sure of what part number corresponds to an original industrial ?
Also i still have the name of the seller that sold me this keyboard so i may ask him about the authenticity of the keyboard and get back to you

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:11**

wobbled wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:57
1394946 wrote: 28 Jul 2020, 23:46 he replied,

The keyboard was bought initially from a Swiss collector that informed me that the keyboard is original but the sticker badge had been replaced due to normal tear.
i had no reason not to believe him then
i don't think He was lying though because i had also bought a unicomp grey case for another model m(not industrial) that belonged to a friend of mine who saw my industrial and wanted to make his own, look like mine and that case is not the same as the one on my industrial.the one on my industrial is much sturdier

i can see the gap that you refer to but i don't know if this a sign that the keyboard is fake.Maybe due to various types of model m's the tolerances where greater in mine

I haven't opened the keyboard so i cannot tell if there have been any modifications to it or not

there is no conspiracy here, i bought the specific keyboard as an original industrial , and i m selling it like one
i don't know if it is original or not but i think it is

ps if you happen to know a way to check the authenticity of the keyboard please let me know so i can do it

kind regards
Tim
I'd be interested to see what other peoples take on this is, because to me it sounds like BS.

The industrial cases from Unicomp are pretty much identical to the IBM made Industrial cases minus some slight imperfections on the back which seem to differ slightly on each case (I've owned both at the same time, and noticed no difference in sturdiness once the keyboard was fully assembled)
Not to mention the cases Unicomp sell are genuine industrial cases anyway that are simply leftovers from the Lexmark days where they sold Model M's with the IBM logo still. As far as I know they don't produce these, so once they're gone - they're gone.

If he had removed the identifying model number sticker I'd be both more suspicious, yet find it easier to believe as well. The fact the model number on this matches known grey lexmarks with blue & white IBM stickers doesn't really help his story.
Unless he can open it up and we see that the internals are genuine 'industrial' parts with corresponding model number and it's just the case that was replaced by Unicomp with some random ass model number sticker on we can't be sure what it actually is.

To ask £800 for a product that a dude in Switzerland promised you it was real is ludicrous.

I also see it as a crock of BS. Too many steps had to be taken for that to be accidental and the sellers explanation is too dodgy and doesn't make sense within its own logic. Basically "maybe it is authentic, maybe it's not who's to say? But I'm selling it as authentic" which isn't really the attitude of someone who bought something as authentic. And the stuff about being sturdier also doesn't make sense.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:19**

People are crazy to buy industrial model Ms at high prices, when unicomp sells original industrial grey cases for 30 bucks....

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:22**

I've found about 15 examples of IBM / Lexmark 52g9700's on ClickyKeyboards.com and all of which are cream cases with blue badges. Didn't see any in industrial grey cases, other than his.
I think the Industrial Model M's are 1394946's, and they probably have a completely different code for the Lexmark made Industrial Model M's (if they exist)

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:23**

And oh btw, the grey cases sold by unicomp have drainage holes towards the lower end of the case. Also these are an original IBM part, just from a later date. There's no such thing as a fake industrial grey....

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:26**

kmnov2017 wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 00:23 And oh btw, the grey cases sold by unicomp have drainage holes towards the lower end of the case. Also these are an original IBM part, just from a later date. There's no such thing as a fake industrial grey....

Until someone whips out a can of spray paint

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:27**

wobbled wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 00:26
kmnov2017 wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 00:23 And oh btw, the grey cases sold by unicomp have drainage holes towards the lower end of the case. Also these are an original IBM part, just from a later date. There's no such thing as a fake industrial grey....
Until someone whips out a can of spray paint

True. Lol

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:39**

Ugh God can someone else message this guy, I'm so bad at making points

I sent this to him:

Because putting a beige ibm model m, in to a $30 case doesnt make it an industrial model m, as identical as it may be it's still not one, I completely understand where you are coming from, since it will have the exact same dimensions as a industrial, but you cant just buy a model m, shove it in an industrial case, and sell it for hundreds, it's not about if the industrial possibly being higher quality, it's about rarity, less of something will make its price go up.

I hope this listing gets taken down due to the many obvious signs that this isn't an original industrial. I hope could help

Kind regards,
Albert

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:46**

I highly doubt that he will take down the listing.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:52**

He replied,

I completely agree with what you say ,but let’s just , for the sake of argument ,assume that your keyboard that according to you is an original industrial ,for some unlucky reason you drop it and you damage the case but thankfully due to Unicomp you can order a new OEM Lexmark case
Does this mean that when you swap the damaged Lexmark case of your original industrial with a new Unicomp Lexmark case,do you still have an original industrial or not ?
I have not done any of the above ,I bought it as it is

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:53**

I replied,

That's a very fair point, but if your that clumsy to drop an $800 dollar keyboard that's made out of a very strong plastic, drops somewhere that high it would break? I think af that point you would deserve to have the title of owning an original industrial taken off you.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 00:55**

Apparently hes gnna give me proof that he didn't know it was fake with chatting history

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:01**

Even if he did all the above, it still doesn't explain why he has some random ass beige model m sticker on the back of his Unicomp industrial case. Someone has put it there.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:07**

I'm sorry but what does a chat prove? How hard is it to make two accounts or edit sent dates with inspect element?

I do like that he took the philosophical angle and asked you to consider what your definition of authenticity really was. Good move on his part.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:16**

i like how he hasnt replied prob setting up chat

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:20**

this is the seller that sold me the keyboard and his name is ******
i will take the listing down, i cannot find the proper tools to open the case of the keyboard but i will send you photos when i can
thank you for letting me know about my keyboard and for all your help
kind regards
Tim

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:26**

1394946 wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 01:20 yayyyyyyyy,

https://www.ebay.com/usr/1188ru?ul_noapp=true
this is the seller that sold me the keyboard and his name is Howard
i will take the listing down, i cannot find the proper tools to open the case of the keyboard but i will send you photos when i can
thank you for letting me know about my keyboard and for all your help
kind regards
Tim

Yeh I was messaging him as well, figured if two people were on his ass it might help take it down

I feel bad for him though, sounds like he was genuinely ripped off.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:28**

wobbled wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 01:26
1394946 wrote: 29 Jul 2020, 01:20 yayyyyyyyy,

https://www.ebay.com/usr/1188ru?ul_noapp=true
this is the seller that sold me the keyboard and his name is Howard
i will take the listing down, i cannot find the proper tools to open the case of the keyboard but i will send you photos when i can
thank you for letting me know about my keyboard and for all your help
kind regards
Tim
Yeh I was messaging him as well, figured if two people were on his ass it might help take it down
I feel bad for him though, sounds like he was genuinely ripped off.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 01:45**

Aw if he was honestly ripped off then I do feel kinda bad.

Posted: **29 Jul 2020, 03:07**

I'm a n00b, so I'll ask it because y'all brought it up: is there any mechanical difference between the industrial Model M(s) and a bog-standard one?

deskthority

Mind The Gap - Unicomp NOS Industrial case

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