Mia a 122 soon to be opensource, if it works that is.

zool · 05 Apr 2018, 04:01

oh and I know nothing about how to do trackpoint, I will have to do some research, we have a couple of reasonable adcs so yeah I can't see why not apart from IO. I was looking at some really cute mini roller balls.

zool · 09 Apr 2018, 07:41

A quick test of the plate and ergonomics with some sa:

Spoiler:

I don't like the 3rd row(Fkeys etc) with R1 they need to be lifted up little bit extra, something like 2mm, otherwise you feel like you have to reach over the number row. The other more difficult option would be to adjust the spacing and bend the plate by about 4 degrees. It has a nice effect and nice ergo as the angle seems closer the pressing angle when coming off the home row.

accommodating a bent plate would make a more complicated case, but not impossible. also has the effect of the tilting the display a little too. It would make it close to the original inspiration of this board an 122 /1800 blend.

any other good ways of tweaking R1/R1 stacking?

vvp · 09 Apr 2018, 10:32

Phenix wrote: Is it possible to add a second rotary encoder? (I could likely find usage for 4 of them.. )

What functionality would they provide?
I can think of:

volume up/down
mouse wheel up/down (Wheel)
mouse wheel left/righ (AC Pan)
mouse up/down (Y)
mouse left/right (X)

The problem is that rotary encodes do not sound like a good choice for the last two options. A joystick would be better but not sure whether better enough (to be worth of increased complexity) than simple keys with a good acceleration algorithm. I use simple linear acceleration which stops increasing speed when the opposite direction is requested at the same time. This allows to set the maximum mouse speed movement interactively. E.g. press left mouse movement ... the speed starts increasing and when you do not want it to increase any more then press also right movement (while still holding the original left movement). The mouse keys are home row keys so there is no problem to press any subset of them at the same time.

zool · 10 Apr 2018, 05:07

I was thinking I might be able to get the encoders and the extended key matrix back to one ic. but I run out of I/O. So plan D. : use the i2c bus for the analogue(joystick) and encoders, could be also the way to go for the extended keyblocks?

So do I then make them usb able too, ie usable as their own hid? It would mean extra passives and a slightly better uC which would bump the cost up for anyone wanting to build them that way. But it might have more DIY appeal than the full keyboard. I had the same thoughts on the PW manager too. I know for myself, I get attached to a boards, it would be nice to have to have it as a man in the middle PW manager, so you use any keyboard, kinda like Hasu usb to usb converter.

zool · 10 Apr 2018, 08:47

lol already done:
https://hackaday.io/project/27611-i2c-encoder

Phenix · 10 Apr 2018, 12:33

i had use the encoders for
5% volume steps
1% volume steps
brightness
'media-control' (next/prev or sth)

for sure one could do this with 1 or 2 encoders and 'hold ctrl/alt' but thats not the point for me.. I also love the AESTHETICS of them + I prefer the handling.

how would one wire them tough? the dude who did the MacPad used a D-Latch..

having a 'standalone Password manager + some macro keys/rotary encoders' sounds fantastic to me: makes one able to use it with ANY other boards + makes hacks ala 'F122 with PWM / custom larger sized builts with PWM a option.

will I be able to import my passwords from keepass tough?: didnt see that post.
plain-text is not optimum.. however I (many?) dont want to enter somewhat 300passwords and more

zool · 11 Apr 2018, 07:17

Phenix wrote: i had use the encoders for
5% volume steps
1% volume steps
brightness
'media-control' (next/prev or sth)

for sure one could do this with 1 or 2 encoders and 'hold ctrl/alt' but thats not the point for me.. I also love the AESTHETICS of them + I prefer the handling.

how would one wire them tough? the dude who did the MacPad used a D-Latch..

having a 'standalone Password manager + some macro keys/rotary encoders' sounds fantastic to me: makes one able to use it with ANY other boards + makes hacks ala 'F122 with PWM / custom larger sized builts with PWM a option.

will I be able to import my passwords from keepass tough?: didnt see that post.
plain-text is not optimum.. however I (many?) dont want to enter somewhat 300passwords and more

I've had a look that keepass apis, should be possible for plugin to handle the detail(I don't know what that detail will be yet, but looks like it should not be too bad.)

I don't know which way I will go with the encoders, I did a quick mock up and I can fit 4 encoders + 8 switches on a board no problem, But if you want a big wheel, that might need something different like the board I linked.

Spoiler:

I think I will make mine compatible with it, if i get around to...

The PCB's arrived today. Happy with the quality. Time to put a couple together and key a keyboard going.
Partial scan of the pcb:

Spoiler:

scottc · 11 Apr 2018, 10:16

I've used some Python libraries to write simple custom frontends for my KeePass database, it should be pretty easy to write a bulk-exporter tool if there's a transfer interface from PC -> keyboard that you can use.

Phenix · 11 Apr 2018, 12:59

Which footprint does a rotary encoder has? I doubt 1u suffices - 2x2u if placed in the middle?
Where do you aim for placing them?

„Normal“ sized is absolutely ok: we don’t need bigass stuff, no?

zool · 11 Apr 2018, 13:46

Phenix wrote: Which footprint does a rotary encoder has? I doubt 1u suffices - 2x2u if placed in the middle?
Where do you aim for placing them?

„Normal“ sized is absolutely ok: we don’t need bigass stuff, no?

http://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-Datasheets/pec16.pdf

was the encoder I was thinking off as it is one of the cheapest 100k rated one on digikey with a number of different shaft lengths.

Your right that 4 encoders right besides each other really is not enough room. In the center of 2x2 key block would be better.

zool · 11 Apr 2018, 13:47

scottc wrote: I've used some Python libraries to write simple custom frontends for my KeePass database, it should be pretty easy to write a bulk-exporter tool if there's a transfer interface from PC -> keyboard that you can use.

details.

, most likely usb mass storage.

Phenix · 11 Apr 2018, 13:57

Regarding the locking mechanism PWM:
Could there be some kind of „keep active til X“?

For instance I unlock my KeePass along with encrypted vaults after boot and have my keepass open til PC goes to sleep or I lock it manually:
To much hassle bashing in a 30digit password everytime for me.

zool · 11 Apr 2018, 14:18

Phenix wrote: Regarding the locking mechanism PWM:
Could there be some kind of „keep active til X“?

For instance I unlock my KeePass along with encrypted vaults after boot and have my keepass open til PC goes to sleep or I lock it manually:
To much hassle bashing in a 30digit password everytime for me.

Seems like a reasonable feature, time out or "Lock" key press combo. might actually be a good use of a lock key.

Phenix · 11 Apr 2018, 14:47

zool wrote:
Phenix wrote: Regarding the locking mechanism PWM:
Could there be some kind of „keep active til X“?

For instance I unlock my KeePass along with encrypted vaults after boot and have my keepass open til PC goes to sleep or I lock it manually:
To much hassle bashing in a 30digit password everytime for me.

Seems like a reasonable feature, time out or "Lock" key press combo. might actually be a good use of a lock key.

You need such a key nevertheless: if PWM is off pres „lock key“ to unlock vs if PWM is on press „lock key“ to loxk

zool · 13 Apr 2018, 13:12

Still waiting for some parts to land, I have one mostly together other than the micro as it is on back order. : (

I did find a couple of non critical errors with a couple of indicators I put on at the last minute. grr I'm kinda annoyed I didn't check double check datasheets before sending it off. Every thing else seems to be fine so far though.

Oh and I really should make some changes to some of the footprints so that you don't need hot air.

Phenix · 14 Apr 2018, 12:55

Did you think about the case yet? All-metal or something else? Hint: think about a see-trough bottom

zool · 15 Apr 2018, 01:43

Ideally it would all metal, a clear window on the case bottom is very appealing. But in short I have not put enough time into the case yet, I have a slab of PE I will use for the time being.

I'm still a little torn if I incline the top two rows and screen like a M122 or not. It uses more material if I do. The advantage every thing is slightly better ergonomics.

Phenix · 15 Apr 2018, 02:07

As long as the upper portion is a detachable, if need to be standalone unit there are some more options..
EG something flip-out may be possible. Never used a rack but wouldn’t „as flat as possible“ be needed?

zool · 15 Apr 2018, 04:42

If the top two rows of the case was angled it would be a separate piece.

it does not have to be that thin, it is more about the width, unless it goes into a draw.

zool · 16 Apr 2018, 09:40

The micro arrived today, I now have a blinky light with all three osc. yay!

zool · 21 Apr 2018, 02:36

making progress on the firmware, matrix scanning is done, i decided to go with the voltage drop through the diodes (I might make them schottky instead of 4148's), as it lets me scan the matrix nice and fast with enough recovery time for the inputs without extra pullups, 1.3usec for complete scan edge detect. Could be a little faster but its fast enough to drop into an 10khz interrupt and debounce. Now I need to try and remember how to do the USB DMA on the pic *argh*.

Ir0n · 21 Apr 2018, 02:45

1 PCB please. Thank you..

When I was younger I thought those logitech keyboards with the LCD screens were the most bad ass thing ever..
Yours looks even more bad ass and more useful to boot. Also anime..

zool · 21 Apr 2018, 15:44

Ir0n wrote: 1 PCB please. Thank you..

When I was younger I thought those logitech keyboards with the LCD screens were the most bad ass thing ever..
Yours looks even more bad ass and more useful to boot. Also anime..

Thanks for the words of encouragement, you probably should wait for the next revision(one with encoder support), or until I have it all working.

zool · 24 Apr 2018, 10:49

got a bit more done on the firmware, I now have a basic usb keyboard and rtc working. I'm thinking usb uart will be less of a pain to implement a import/export config api than usb mass storage api as I'll won't have to worry about compatible filesystem. I think next I'll have a crack at some of the programmability stuff/or usb comm port.

DiodeHead · 24 Apr 2018, 15:27

you're implementing it on a pic32 if i remember correctly, isn't it? are you implementing the USB yourself? some time ago I only could find tutorials on the proprietary USB pic libraries, I'm curious about your dev setup.

zool · 25 Apr 2018, 02:41

DiodeHead wrote: you're implementing it on a pic32 if i remember correctly, isn't it? are you implementing the USB yourself? some time ago I only could find tutorials on the proprietary USB pic libraries, I'm curious about your dev setup.

It's one of the greater frustrations: Microchips licenses.

dev setup: linux, mplabx, pickit4, gcc-mips, xc32.

library wise it is a bit of a mish mash atm, a mix of microchip libs, other opensource(mainly https://github.com/signal11/m-stack).

I've validated with the microchip harmony in mplab, and switching over to mstack for the usb. I'm missing a oss bootloader and linker, would be great to get them oss. I'm getting to the point if I could get a oss bootloader and linker working I could publish. I kinda regret picking pic32, stm32/freescale in retrospect probably would have been better, still might go that way out of frustration. I could still publish but people would have to download and agree to microchip terms just to get the linker.

The other option is just to release the .hex, but that is not what I would like. I'm still a long way off getting my in keyboard terminal, but i did have a bit of fun last night making a calculator on the pic over uart. I have not even touched the display or spi yet.

It's not my first pic32 keyboard, but it is my first attempt to make it opensource.

Phenix · 25 Apr 2018, 02:46

Will the board run QMK?

zool · 25 Apr 2018, 03:04

Phenix wrote: Will the board run QMK?

Would be nice, and while in the realm of possibility I'm not sure I'll have the energy to blaze that trail. But I do have vague ideas of incorporating features from qmk. Terminal being one.

Phenix · 25 Apr 2018, 11:17

zool wrote:
Phenix wrote: Will the board run QMK?
Would be nice, and while in the realm of possibility I'm not sure I'll have the energy to blaze that trail. But I do have vague ideas of incorporating features from qmk. Terminal being one.

Had be cool considering QMK is „Usus“ and many know how to use it + it’s featureless are superb

zool · 29 Apr 2018, 09:56

Out of curiosity, would anyone be interested in this kinda layout just as a pcb matrices, with no controller? just wire up to your micro and firmware of choice.

Spoiler:

Kinda of 1/2 way between a hand wire and integrated?

I have no interest in selling stuff, but it is so cheap to get the pcb made in even 5 off qnty. A couple of people could get them made for themselves. cost wise it would be in the order of $5-10 per a pcb.