deskthority

After using an Omnikey 101 with pine whites for almost 2 weeks now, I do have to admit that they feel quite nice. I was afraid that they would be a small disappointment after getting used to capacitive buckling springs, but it turned out I had no reason to be afraid.

One thing is a small annoyance thou. Sometimes later in the evening when I type quietly so I don't bottom out, it clicks but no keypress is registered. I tried to very slowly press some keys down, and low and behold, they can click without registering. From browsing the forum and wiki I didn't know this was intended behavior. So this is normal for SKCM switches?

Yes, this is normal. Clicking and actuation come from two completely independent mechanisms: a click leaf and a switch plate, respectively. They are calibrated to happen *almost* at the same time. But you should always get the click first, and never the actuation first.

XMIT wrote: Yes, this is normal. Clicking and actuation come from two completely independent mechanisms: a click leaf and a switch plate, respectively. They are calibrated to happen *almost* at the same time. But you should always get the click first, and never the actuation first.

I've found most switch designs to be the opposite actually; actuation first and then click first. I'm at my parents' so I couldn't check but I feel sure I've seen Alps boards do it as well.

Regardless, as XMIT said, the two mechanisms rarely perfectly coincide unless they do so by design, such as on buckling springs.

You are absolutely right. Perhaps in 2017 I'll spend more time curating the Wiki. That was enough to get seebart a Wingnut in 2015.

Anyway, I've added this section to the Wiki. If you don't like it please edit it!
wiki/Alps_SKCL/SKCM_series#Maintenance

Chyros wrote:

XMIT wrote: Yes, this is normal. Clicking and actuation come from two completely independent mechanisms: a click leaf and a switch plate, respectively. They are calibrated to happen *almost* at the same time. But you should always get the click first, and never the actuation first.

I've found most switch designs to be the opposite actually; actuation first and then click first. I'm at my parents' so I couldn't check but I feel sure I've seen Alps boards do it as well.

Regardless, as XMIT said, the two mechanisms rarely perfectly coincide unless they do so by design, such as on buckling springs.

I thought I read that some German DIN standard required tactility before actuation. This came up when we were tearing to an NEC Blue Ovals board, which *definitely* actuates before the click! I have a hard time using boards that do this.

Buckling spring and beam spring both use one mechanism for both tactility and actuation.

XMIT wrote: You are absolutely right. Perhaps in 2017 I'll spend more time curating the Wiki. That was enough to get seebart a Wingnut in 2015

Make that the gold Wingnut! Deserved or not is relative.

XMIT wrote:

Chyros wrote:

XMIT wrote: Yes, this is normal. Clicking and actuation come from two completely independent mechanisms: a click leaf and a switch plate, respectively. They are calibrated to happen *almost* at the same time. But you should always get the click first, and never the actuation first.

I've found most switch designs to be the opposite actually; actuation first and then click first. I'm at my parents' so I couldn't check but I feel sure I've seen Alps boards do it as well.

Regardless, as XMIT said, the two mechanisms rarely perfectly coincide unless they do so by design, such as on buckling springs.

I thought I read that some German DIN standard required tactility before actuation. This came up when we were tearing to an NEC Blue Ovals board, which *definitely* actuates before the click!

Ha, yeah, those have it to the extreme xD . I'm sure most switches have it before the click though, and so many mechanisms have it!

Chyros wrote: Ha, yeah, those have it to the extreme xD . I'm sure most switches have it before the click though, and so many mechanisms have it!

Do you have any more examples? I'm having a hard time thinking of any. Cherry, Alps, buckling spring, beam spring, Topre, Siemens, Mitsumis, and SMKs all click or have tactile feedback before actuation.

XMIT wrote:

Chyros wrote: Ha, yeah, those have it to the extreme xD . I'm sure most switches have it before the click though, and so many mechanisms have it!

Do you have any more examples? I'm having a hard time thinking of any. Cherry, Alps, buckling spring, beam spring, Topre, Siemens, Mitsumis, and SMKs all click or have tactile feedback before actuation.

Well I'm away atm so I can't test it for sure but I could swear Alps actuated before, as did SMKs. I think I even demonstrated in one or two videos.

XMIT wrote: You are absolutely right. Perhaps in 2017 I'll spend more time curating the Wiki. That was enough to get seebart a Wingnut in 2015.

seebart wrote: Make that the gold Wingnut! Deserved or not is relative.

Come on, that's not fair. Let's not take shots at eachother. I think it was well-deserved, and obviously so did DT Award voters in 2015.

I was a vote, nothing more. Who deserves what prize for which work is relative in my opinion. I also saw some emotions flare at DTA6, I guess that's normal. For anyone in doubt; I very much appreciate my Wingnut to this day, that will never change! I have it on my desk at all times.

XMIT wrote:

Chyros wrote: Ha, yeah, those have it to the extreme xD . I'm sure most switches have it before the click though, and so many mechanisms have it!

Do you have any more examples? I'm having a hard time thinking of any. Cherry, Alps, buckling spring, beam spring, Topre, Siemens, Mitsumis, and SMKs all click or have tactile feedback before actuation.

Black Space Invaders actuate before the click.

To be clear: the use of earlier was really meant to indicate that I have a fair amount of information that I'd love to get up on the Wiki hopefully this year. I wasn't taking a jab at seebart or the wingnut or anything. So please, let's stop this silliness and get back to appreciating Alps switches.

Slom wrote: Black Space Invaders actuate before the click.

Argh, yes, that's another one with disjoint click and actuation mechanisms. If you bend the leaves a little bit sometimes you can delay actuation some.

Ask jacobolus about Omron B3G-S — I can't find his post on geekhack where he said which way around those go. I can't be bothered to dig mine out now that I've packed all my switches away; I have one in my little project box and that's disappeared completely.

And now for something completely different - are APC sliders compatible with Alps switches?

Good question, I have a Green APC lying around somewhere. Ill have to check that out.

alh84001 wrote: And now for something completely different - are APC sliders compatible with Alps switches?

Seems so. Both old-school switches ("APC"-branded) and modern switches seem to have slider dimensions sufficiently similar to genuine Alps. I tested with a tactile green Alps; with the modern slider I verified that the switch actuates correctly. It may actuate a little lower — it may be better tested with a clicky switch.

Thanks on the info, guys. Now where to source them is a completely different matter

Speaking of the ALPS vortex, where do you guys source your stuff? I'm trying to make a complete ALPS switch tester (yes - I know), and it is damn near impossible to find anyone selling anything interesting, let alone individual switches.

Orihalcon sells packs of single alps switches on ebay.

I do have his sample pack - but finding the ones missing from it is giving me some trouble. Thank you though.

I started my collection with a MrInterface bag and an orihalcon set. That alone will get you fairly deep into the common Alps switches.

You will never ever reach the end unless you are willing to spend ridiculous amounts on them (see: Neon Greens, Striped Ambers, plate spring, various space bar switches..) so you'll eventually have to draw the line somewhere.

I figured that would be the case, thank you. I'll do my best!

Is there anyone selling springs for alps? I want to put lighter springs in my green alps

Spirit on geekhack, but idk how the situation is there, he is marked as "scammer". Just look for yourself, you can probably still order.

Yah I saw that, it seems like he hasn't shipped anything in a while.

Ohh great.. I've bought Kontakt 60 to use with my Ivory alps, and it's gone! My father used it ALL!
I can't belive I can't still fix those, and I have this buntch of other alps sws to fix too. So I have ~204 constantly auto-variating resistors, Waiting to kontakt 60 AGAIN!! I'll never give my stuff for (or to?) my father again! What do you think? Will I have a good, not binding alps board? xD

seebart wrote:

XMIT wrote: You are absolutely right. Perhaps in 2017 I'll spend more time curating the Wiki. That was enough to get seebart a Wingnut in 2015

Make that the gold Wingnut! Deserved or not is relative.

Time to spraypaint my wingnut, baby! GOIN' FOR THE GOLD!

On a serious note: I too am grateful for my wingnut!

Let's see. Testing out my keypad with SKCM Blues. The click actuates first about a hair before the actuation. It's very close. Only the lightest presses, imo, would accidentally click the switches without actuation.

Alps Plate Spring would be another switch with 1:1 actuation/click, eh? Considering it's another all-in-one mechanism.

E3E wrote:

seebart wrote:

XMIT wrote: You are absolutely right. Perhaps in 2017 I'll spend more time curating the Wiki. That was enough to get seebart a Wingnut in 2015

Make that the gold Wingnut! Deserved or not is relative.

Time to spraypaint my wingnut, baby! GOIN' FOR THE GOLD!

I don't think so!