Ergodox massdrop groupbuy discussion

7bit · 10 Jan 2013, 10:48

bjarven wrote:About the extra pcbs, I see a option for them when I try to buy? But I don't see any prices for them so I emailed them about it.

Too bad that there are no brown switches though I'll probably get one with blues and one without, and then get some browns from 7bit if the blues are not to my liking.

How much do they charge for the switches?

dmnd · 10 Jan 2013, 10:51

Well, I'm in for two, and glad this is finally happening.

I emailed to ask about the aluminium case, and got an instant response (nice customer service) saying that depending on the level of interest they'll have a prototype aluminium case made next week.

Also, the cart has already been updated to make the price of extra PCBs more obvious ($22 each).

dirge · 10 Jan 2013, 11:10

dmnd wrote: I emailed to ask about the aluminium case, and got an instant response (nice customer service) saying that depending on the level of interest they'll have a prototype aluminium case made next week.

I would be interested in an alu case, drop them a line and see what price we'd be looking at? Which design? layered or the shapeways?

bjarven · 10 Jan 2013, 11:19

7bit wrote: How much do they charge for the switches?

I'm harassing them with emails now...

I asked how much a full set without the switches would be. And it seems that they're changing the buying form quite often, (they've added prices to pcb's in the last hour I think, $22, don't know if that is for one set or just one, think just one)

justcallmecrash · 10 Jan 2013, 11:30

I'd like the option to JUST get the PCB... that's all I've wanted since the beginning. I don't have any use for a fully-built kit. I would get a kit with just the PCB and the non-switch electronics.

webwit · 10 Jan 2013, 14:02

bisl wrote:The buy has opened.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox

Can't see a thing.

Apparently a very hot design. Maybe we should copy it?

Spoiler:

OrangeJewce · 10 Jan 2013, 14:16

justcallmecrash wrote:I'd like the option to JUST get the PCB... that's all I've wanted since the beginning. I don't have any use for a fully-built kit. I would get a kit with just the PCB and the non-switch electronics.

You can use chat or email...they are quite responsive and it says they will sell without switches etc. =_=""

You guys should ask first, shoot later. It seems that massdrop is really amicable to special requests.

Cheers,

OrangeJewce · 10 Jan 2013, 14:18

damorgue wrote:[negative rant]
So as predicted, this means you have to buy everything from them with no flexibility whatsoever. This is even before it has begun.

They don't offer the switches I wanted, which I already happen to have if they were to sell a kit without switches. Same goes with most of the other parts. Are are forced to use that case, and only in translucent acrylic? All other cases are nullified I guess since it can't be bought without that case. In the end, the price of just the PCBs then comes 274USD+ probable hidden costs.
[/negative rant]

Glad to finally see the GB happen though. I hope it becomes a great hit.

There is a worldwide shortage of MX Brown. Finding any significant supplier would be very hard to do at this time. I don't think massdrop are idiots, given that MX Brown is one of the most popular switch types aside from blue and red, if they could find a source for them, it would be an offered type.

Cheers,

justcallmecrash · 10 Jan 2013, 14:20

I did leave a message on their site about my desires... we'll see if they add that to the cart. I, for one, am not opposed to Massdrop. I don't have any past experience with them, but I do have pretty good consumer protection from my bank (and I'm not investing hundreds of dollars with them, just enough to buy 3-4 sets of PCB and maybe the Teensy controllers and other electronics). If you'll take another look, you'll see I wasn't bitching, just stating my desire for an option they haven't posted yet.

dirge · 10 Jan 2013, 14:24

assdrop

7bit · 10 Jan 2013, 14:41

webwit wrote: Can't see a thing.

Apparently a very hot design. Maybe we should copy it?

I like how it does not say which field is for what.

Try to register, that is even more fun!

damorgue · 10 Jan 2013, 15:48

It seems that Massdrop are listening and changing some things. I have been pleasantly surprised by this. If they read this, my suggestions are:

- Reveal the cost of each item we buy.
- Allow the buyer to select the switches they want, if available. Variable force weighing could be achieved by buying a certain number of red, black, grey MX switches, but it seems that it isn't possible at the moment.

The next two I would guess that Msssdrop opposes heavily as they could decrease their profits, unlike the above two suggestions.
- Allow the buyer to buy the parts they want, e.g. 20 teensy, 2 PCBs, certain numbers of certain switches, no cable or whatever the customer wants to buy.
- Allow the buyer to buy the PCBs loose. You added the possibility to buy extras, but not loose ones. An example of the above point really.

These two last points are in my opinion the most important of all, the versatility. Projects like this one usually allow for us to make the product as we like it, something which isn't made available by companies, and individually customize it to our needs. This factor seems to disappear when it is run through a non-flexible ordering-system. I'd say that their business model of lowering costs by making everyone buy the same things is a very poor fit to us, if not the opposite of many of the buyers' intentions of making theirs customized to fit their individual needs.

For the lack of options, I guess we are forced to buy through them. 7bit?

Spharx · 10 Jan 2013, 15:55

Well I don't get the registration wall. This does not help getting more customers at all and also everyone can access the site via bugmenot & co.

Currently one can select:

Case Style (Classic, full hand)
Case Material (clear acrylic, aluminum )
Switch Type (blue, clear, black)
Extra PCB (1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8)

Did someone thought about "Der Zoll" ? How much do thees guys want for doing almost nothing ? 19% + ???

webwit · 10 Jan 2013, 16:03

Here it is 21% now, also on shipping costs, plus some fixed costs, so in total importing something adds 30% to the price. The only way to prevent this would be to order the parts in Europe.

7bit · 10 Jan 2013, 16:18

Spharx wrote:...
Did someone thought about "Der Zoll" ? How much do thees guys want for doing almost nothing ? 19% + ???

Usually a bit above 20% altogether.

For shipping the phantoms I added the HTS-code (8471 60 20 00) and things like "Do-it-yourself keyboard kit".

It seems to have worked out for Norway and some other countries. Don't know if it would have worked for Germany ...

L!athus · 10 Jan 2013, 16:46

7bit wrote:
webwit wrote: Can't see a thing.

Apparently a very hot design. Maybe we should copy it?
I like how it does not say which field is for what.

Try to register, that is even more fun!

Blanks phenomenon...?

Mayb its due to you using a browser other thn chrome, firefox or safari. I register while on the go wif chrome my tablet. But once @ hm using IE their site has a notice after login recommeding the above 3 browser to view the sites correctly.

I have also email them some enquiries similiar to most of the qns raise by others in this tread after MD goes live with the ergodox GB. Hope they could address all concerns, for me to commit to it. But still hitting 100+ just to get the cost $199 is abit off from what i estimated.

AloisiusFauxly · 10 Jan 2013, 19:50

Spharx wrote:Well I don't get the registration wall.

Yeah, reg walls suck. In Massdrop's case it's so they can be classified as a "members only" site to offer lower prices than the manufacturers would otherwise allow. Minimum advertised prices are stupid, but I'd rather suffer a reg wall if it means saving money.

To anyone who doesn't like Massdrop and think they're doing nothing, then start the group buy yourself. If it's no work at all, then surely you don't mind doing it. Go ahead and prove your point by showing that it takes no effort to run this group buy and run it. If you're not convinced of your own words, how can anyone else be? 7bit is the only person in this thread who offered to help with a group buy. What have you done to help other than complain?

webwit · 10 Jan 2013, 19:51

Still attacking people?

AloisiusFauxly · 10 Jan 2013, 19:53

Just trying to get people to do something productive, friend.

amidwinter · 10 Jan 2013, 19:58

For anyone that's interested in the keycap massdrop, I just spoke to Will at Massdrop and he told me it will probably be approximately between 45 and 60 for the set. I'm not too experienced with buying keycaps; does this seem like a good deal to anyone else?

ironman31 · 10 Jan 2013, 19:59

for PBT that seems alright

L!athus · 10 Jan 2013, 20:10

I've post this on GH ergodox thread, so i'll just copy paste here as well for those on DT.

In my email to MD, and i believed others on DT or GH here as well, have express my interest in a kit possible option to go without switches. I have just recieved an email reply. Now they have added an option to go "switch-less". Its -$44 off the final price if you choose to go with that option, if i understand correctly. Just check up on their site. The option is available under switches now.

And for those outside of US interested in the buy but can't find your country under "country" just email your request to them. They will be added asap for you to procceed with it.

About switches, MD expressed in the mail that they have a hard time sourcing well priced reds and browns. I'm not sure why but they will be running a seperate GB for brown switch only along with ergodox.

Thats all the answers i got from MD. Hope its helpful info for any.

I glad that they are prompt @ addressing issues so far adding more options of customising your order.

webwit · 10 Jan 2013, 20:10

AloisiusFauxly wrote:Just trying to get people to do something productive, friend.

Stop calling me friend, you are not. You exemplify another problem with massdrop, which is whether this is a good development in the bigger scope of things for a community like this. There is the danger it will transform it from a DIY crowd into a Shut Up Take My Money crowd, where a commercial 3rd party is necessary to get anything done, or you will get attacked by those who are very critical of members yet entirely uncritical and aggressively protective of the 3rd party entity.

damorgue · 10 Jan 2013, 20:15

AloisiusFauxly wrote:To anyone who doesn't like Massdrop and think they're doing nothing, then start the group buy yourself. If it's no work at all, then surely you don't mind doing it. Go ahead and prove your point by showing that it takes no effort to run this group buy and run it.

I can't find a single person who claimed that it takes no effort to run it. I wonder where you got that from?

7bit wrote:Mayby, I will do a 2nd run with mount plate and 7BIT-layout option.

It will ...
- be cheaper
- take almost forever to be delivered
- come with any choice of switches, inculding the popular MXLOCK and when I can get hands on them, Matias-ALPS.
- have a solid mount plate

This is what I was hoping for. I was just a bit worried that it would coincide with the sorting of round4.

AloisiusFauxly · 10 Jan 2013, 20:27

webwit wrote:You exemplify another problem with massdrop, which is whether this is a good development in the bigger scope of things for a community like this.

I don't see Massdrop offering a DIY kit as a threat to this community. You know it far better than I, so could you walk me through your reasoning?

7bit · 10 Jan 2013, 20:29

amidwinter wrote:For anyone that's interested in the keycap massdrop, I just spoke to Will at Massdrop and he told me it will probably be approximately between 45 and 60 for the set. I'm not too experienced with buying keycaps; does this seem like a good deal to anyone else?

Dealing with Massdrop is always a bad deal!

damorgue · 10 Jan 2013, 20:36

7bit wrote:
amidwinter wrote:For anyone that's interested in the keycap massdrop, I just spoke to Will at Massdrop and he told me it will probably be approximately between 45 and 60 for the set. I'm not too experienced with buying keycaps; does this seem like a good deal to anyone else?
Dealing with Massdrop is always a bad deal!

Please 7bit and webwit, try to keep it constructive, for the sake of the discussion.

AloisiusFauxly wrote:
webwit wrote:You exemplify another problem with massdrop, which is whether this is a good development in the bigger scope of things for a community like this.
I don't see Massdrop offering a DIY kit as a threat to this community. You know it far better than I, so could you walk me through your reasoning?

damorgue wrote:These two last points are in my opinion the most important of all, the versatility. Projects like this one usually allow for us to make the product as we like it, something which isn't made available by companies, and individually customize it to our needs. This factor seems to disappear when it is run through a non-flexible ordering-system. I'd say that their business model of lowering costs by making everyone buy the same things is a very poor fit to us, if not the opposite of many of the buyers' intentions of making theirs customized to fit their individual needs.

I got to admit though, they have pleasantly surprised me so far. I am just afraid that their agenda differs, seen as their usual goals are to make many people buy the same things to get discounts, which they profit a bit from. This is the opposite of making something which fits you the best, which is enabled by many of these customs and sort of the point, making things companies can't. Companies can't make all of these individual models available, as the many variations doesn't suit such a business model.

Massdrop is something which I bet works great in some scenarios, but not for this application as per above explanation. They have taken their system and tried to adapt it to this case. I have to admit, with surprising success, but it will probably never reach the levels 7bit could offer if he chooses to do so.

webwit · 10 Jan 2013, 20:55

Please 7bit and webwit, try to keep it constructive, for the sake of the discussion.

And more attacks based on the fact that someone dares to criticize such a service.

Perhaps you be more constructive yourself? You and AloisiusFauxly ploinked the opinion by attacking the messenger. Where are your counter-arguments? There were none. You are proving my point. Is this what it will be? Don't use a commercial 3rd party service, get attacked by reddit/digg crowd?

phetto · 10 Jan 2013, 20:58

Can't wait for this, but what's massdrop :O

justcallmecrash · 10 Jan 2013, 21:41

I feel like there should be individual groupbuys for each component, that way no one is pigeonholed. Perhaps that's what we really should be doing as a community... it would certainly make it less daunting. One person does JUST PCB groupbuy, one person on switches (or perhaps one person per switch type), one person on full-hand cases, one person on original-design cases, one on aluminum cases, etc. Sure, we'll be sending money to more people, and the more people involved the greater the risk of someone flaking out, but otherwise it's overwhelming for one (or two, or four) people to be expected to organize this entire enterprise to suit everyone involved.
FWIW, I'll help any way I can if someone wants to take the conductors baton and start directing.