Help with lubing Alps

[seebart]

Surely someone knows why.

No.

But it is a valid question that I also have and I cannot answer and I don't know anyone that can answer it. Like I wrote earlier I have two visually identical Apple M0116 with Salmon Alps SKCM and the difference in key feel is shocking!

[purdobol]

I know that none of us are Alps Electric and it has proven impossible to get any answers out of them. But I want to know how it is even possible at all for two switches, one lubed and one not, in otherwise identical condition, for the one with lube to not feel smoother than the other, because I can not think of any possible logical reason for that to be the case unless SKCM switches are made out of magical plastic that doesn't conform to the laws of physics. Surely someone knows why.

The only reason I could think of is... lube does nothing in this case. Have suspicion that alps sliders are made of self-lubricating nylon plastic. Where solid lubricant is dispersed throughout the plastic. Nylon MDS maybe?

This is just a speculation though.

[seebart]

I know that none of us are Alps Electric and it has proven impossible to get any answers out of them. But I want to know how it is even possible at all for two switches, one lubed and one not, in otherwise identical condition, for the one with lube to not feel smoother than the other, because I can not think of any possible logical reason for that to be the case unless SKCM switches are made out of magical plastic that doesn't conform to the laws of physics. Surely someone knows why.

The only reason I could think of is... lube does nothing in this case. Have suspicion that alps sliders are made of self-lubricating nylon plastic. Where solid lubricant is dispersed throughout the plastic. Nylon MDS maybe?

This is just a speculation though.

No idea. We do know that Alps Electric lubed blue Alps SCKM from the factory, but we never found out exactly what kind of lube if I recall.

[Chyros]

I know that none of us are Alps Electric and it has proven impossible to get any answers out of them. But I want to know how it is even possible at all for two switches, one lubed and one not, in otherwise identical condition, for the one with lube to not feel smoother than the other, because I can not think of any possible logical reason for that to be the case unless SKCM switches are made out of magical plastic that doesn't conform to the laws of physics. Surely someone knows why.

The only reason I could think of is... lube does nothing in this case. Have suspicion that alps sliders are made of self-lubricating nylon plastic. Where solid lubricant is dispersed throughout the plastic. Nylon MDS maybe?

This is just a speculation though.

No idea. We do know that Alps Electric lubed blue Alps SCKM from the factory, but we never found out exactly what kind of lube if I recall.

An old Alps employee I contacted who actually made them said the lube was "JIS spec, probably silicone based".

[seebart]

An old Alps employee I contacted who actually made them said the lube was "JIS spec, probably silicone based".

Right, now I remember you mentioned it. M4dn3ss, if anyone can answer your Alps SKCM questions Chyros can I still say that unlubed clean unworn Alps SKCM are the first choice over anything lubed. The extreme differences in keyfeel with visually very similair examples must be due to wear on the switch parts that may not be noticable visually right away.

[M4dn3ss]

The extreme differences in keyfeel with visually very similair examples must be due to wear on the switch parts that may not be noticable visually right away.

I meant literally identical - as in, a clean switch vs that same switch but lubed. The only explanation I can think of is that the plastics they use have even less friction than the lubricant, which really doesn't sound plausible at all.

Since I forgot to realise that blue Alps originally came lubricated (they certainly don't look like it), I will also point out that even with White Alps, which don't come lubricated from the factory, lubricating a clean SKCM White doesn't make it feel any smoother, even though there is no logical reason why it shouldn't.

[seebart]

...even though there is no logical reason why it shouldn't.

There's a logical reason for sure, we just don't know the reason. Wrong lubricant, wrong lubing method, could be several factors. Maybe you now realize that this subject is not "easily" solvable and quite a few others here have tried before you.

[Chyros]

Basically the only way to gauge whether an Alps switch is good or not is benchmarked against a NOS one. I have used boards that feel just as good as NOS, but even medium-used ones tend to suffer quite noticeably.

[M4dn3ss]

Then I guess it is how it is. Hopefully XMIT's clicky/tactile hall effect switches will be the successor to complicated Alps we've all been waiting for, once they get the sound signature sorted!

[seebart]

Then I guess it is how it is. Hopefully XMIT's clicky/tactile hall effect switches will be the successor to complicated Alps we've all been waiting for, once they get the sound signature sorted!

Nothing will ever succeed complicated Alps SKCL/SKCM. Matias switches were the hope but failed miserably although they are not bad just not a successor.

[M4dn3ss]

Then I guess it is how it is. Hopefully XMIT's clicky/tactile hall effect switches will be the successor to complicated Alps we've all been waiting for, once they get the sound signature sorted!

Nothing will ever succeed complicated Alps SKCL/SKCM. Matias switches were the hope but failed miserably although they are not bad just not a successor.

Not literally succeed, but be superior as to make Alps obsolete. The sound is not nearly on par with Alps yet, but Hall effect with tactile/click leaf would potentially be smoother and more reliable than Alps, plus it has support for LEDs and MX keycaps.

[seebart]

Not literally succeed, but be superior as to make Alps obsolete. The sound is not nearly on par with Alps yet, but Hall effect with tactile/click leaf would potentially be smoother and more reliable than Alps, plus it has support for LEDs and MX keycaps.

Up to this day that is a unfulfilled dream for many...

[andrewjoy]

I struggle to agree that there is no lube on old Alps switches . I have had oranges and greens and you can have a good switch , take the slider out , wipe the sides down put the switch back together and feel the difference . You can even feel it on your finger if you rub the sides of the slider. There is no lube on the housing that I can tell , I have ultrasonic cleaned top housings and if they are dirty at all they feel better .

I think the major issue is not the slider when alps "go bad" its the top housing ( i am excluding dampened sliders ). What looks like is going on form the alps i have looked at is, the switch gets dirty and then the movement of the slider over the housing grinds on the top housing and scratches up the surface. You can see it in switches that have had a hard life , even after an ultrasonic the surface of the inside of the top housing is worn and scratched.

Dust in the housing causes alps to feel bad for sure but i think you can catch it in time so to speak and clean that dust off before the damage is done.

Also NEVER ultrasonic a slider , this removes the lube and they feel like crap.

[seebart]

I struggle to agree that there is no luble on old Alps switches . I have had oranges and greens and you can have a good switch , take the slider out , wipe the sides down put the switch back together and feel the difference . You can even feel it on your finger if you rub the sides of the slider. There is no luble on the housing that I can tell , I have ultrasonic cleaned top housings and if they are dirty at all they feel better .

It is well known that Alps Electric lubed SCKM blue from the factory, not sure about others from that series.

[andrewjoy]

I am almost sure of it ! You can feel the slider is all slippery in your fingers then if you give it a clean its gone.

[seebart]

I am almost sure of it ! You can feel the slider is all slippery in your fingers then if you give it a clean its gone.

With blue Alps we know for sure Andrew!