A Cherry switches collector from China【一位来自中国的樱桃轴体收藏爱好者】

[UncleFan]

I feel so sorry，Because of my recent lack of time and translation problems，So the article updates very slowly，Because the translation involves many professional terms，I need a lot of time to find information，To solve the problem at home and abroad that a different name for the same object.For example the following NIXIE MX White dismantling Figure.I want to know I described it properly?And I found a problem，Different stages of production of the same section switch，On its plunger，Some have a notch, some do not，And the direction of the notches is also different，I found very early switches without this notch，I would like to know its purpose.
很抱歉，由于最近我时间很少以及翻译方面的问题，所以文章更新很慢，因为翻译涉及到很多专业名词，我需要很多时间来查资料，来解决国内外对同一个物体不同称呼的问题，例如下面这个透明盖线性白轴的拆解图，我想知道我所描述的是否正确。并且我发现一个问题，不同时期生产的同款轴体开关，在它的轴心上方，有的会有一个缺口，有的会没有缺口，并且缺口所朝的方向也有区别，我发现很早期的MX轴体开关是没有这个缺口的，我很想知道它的用途。

[Menuhin]

OK, here's something — what is this patent for?

https://www.google.com/patents/US4339643

It seems to be a variant of [wiki]Cherry M9[/wiki], but nothing I've ever seen before. It seems to be tactile, but I don't know what the second spring is for. When I get chance I need to read through it. I only have one type of M9 switch, which is SPST linear.

Unfortunately, my browser can not open this page，It would be helpful if you gave the picture.
很遗憾我的浏览器无法打开这个网页，如果您给出图片的话那真是太好了。

UncleFan, I believe you may have to use VPN to access Google and the patent database hosted by Google.

I uploaded an image from that patent here:

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Related Cherry MX yellow,I do not know if the Cherry MX yellow in China is the same as your source.Chinese-made switch there is a ZIJIN Yellow Switch,In addition to outside the shell and Cherry produced almost the same switch.The Cherry MX Yellow is likely that it is the product of being changed appearance.

My photo showed two yellow switches marked "CHERRY", with different logos. Both switches came from the same keyboard! That keyboard had several different designs of switch! It looks like the switch manufacturer built the switches from a pile of different parts. Some parts may be real Cherry, and some are fake. It's very confusing!

About PCB board，I found a very strange switch，Board has CherryLOGO，But not on the switch.

This is a keyboard from a DECwriter printing terminal from DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation, also known as Digital). The PCB is made by Cherry, but the [wiki]switch grid[/wiki] was made by Hi-Tek Corporation, and comprises [wiki]Hi-Tek linear[/wiki] switches. Nobody knows why.

And this early color darker Cherry MX BLUE,It is highly unlikely fake，Because it has a known source.

The PCB says "HY8001C". I don't recognise "HY". It seems to be a cheap keyboard from an obscure brand that nobody's heard about. The PCB is marked "1995", which is quite recent, and therefore it is likely to be made cheaply.

Therefore, the switches are quite likely to be fake. If this was made in 1985 then they would most likely be real Cherry!

There may be an early mold imperfections，So there will be fuzzy LOGO.

There are two possibilities:

1) the switches are fake; there is no evidence that Cherry have bad moulds

2) Cherry authorised a factory in Taiwan to make Cherry switches and use the Cherry name

At least two factories made Alps switches: Gold Star Alps in Korea, and Forward Electronics in Taiwan. Gold Star Alps switches are nicely made. I think all the poorly-made Alps switches came from Forward Electronics. The internal parts were still good, and I assume those came from Korea or Japan.

We know that Hirose Cherry in Japan made Cherry switches. It is possible that another factory made authorised Cherry MX switches cheaply, but there is no evidence to support this theory yet.

I feel so sorry，Because of my recent lack of time and translation problems，So the article updates very slowly，Because the translation involves many professional terms，I need a lot of time to find information，To solve the problem at home and abroad that a different name for the same object.

This may help:



The terms vary: we don't all call things by the same names. The plunger is normally called a "slider", but in Cherry switches it is called a "stem". I now use "keystem" to refer to the part of the plunger/slider that holds the keycap. Some switches don't have a keystem.

On its plunger，Some have a notch, some do not，And the direction of the notches is also different，I found very early switches without this notch，I would like to know its purpose.

The only thing I notice is that it seems to be where the sprue attaches during moulding. The notch may keep the sprue out of the way. I have never found any other explanation for it. The small bit that sticks up on clicky Cherry MX switches is called a "cam" and shows that the switch has "movement differential" (which is where the click sound comes from); I have no idea why Cherry wanted to mark these switches with small peg! I only know that old Cherry documentation explains why it's there.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

This looks like a covered M8 with an earlier style slot key stem in a double pole configuration.

It's a double-action switch. The second spring is for "continuous function", in other words, the second stage in a double-action switch. That's why the operating cams are not symmetrical. Considering that M9 was typically found in typewriters, this makes sense. The patent is also very clear that this switch is tactile and has hysteresis, although the method of hysteresis is not explained (and clearly wasn't good enough since Cherry MX introduced something fairly drastic).

The example shown on the wiki appears to be linear double action, with the stage two parts missing (the second set of contacts and the stage two spring).

[UncleFan]

OK, here's something — what is this patent for?

https://www.google.com/patents/US4339643

It seems to be a variant of [wiki]Cherry M9[/wiki], but nothing I've ever seen before. It seems to be tactile, but I don't know what the second spring is for. When I get chance I need to read through it. I only have one type of M9 switch, which is SPST linear.

Unfortunately, my browser can not open this page，It would be helpful if you gave the picture.
很遗憾我的浏览器无法打开这个网页，如果您给出图片的话那真是太好了。

UncleFan, I believe you may have to use VPN to access Google and the patent database hosted by Google.

I uploaded an image from that patent here:

Very good discovery！I'm sorry I do not know which switch it is，As Daniel Beardsmore said，It's a double-action switch.So it may be M8 or M9 series of a product，And the information in the DT Forum has a switch called M10.The data says it has a structure similar to M9，but there is no picture，Maybe it is

[UncleFan]

Related Cherry MX yellow,I do not know if the Cherry MX yellow in China is the same as your source.Chinese-made switch there is a ZIJIN Yellow Switch,In addition to outside the shell and Cherry produced almost the same switch.The Cherry MX Yellow is likely that it is the product of being changed appearance.

My photo showed two yellow switches marked "CHERRY", with different logos. Both switches came from the same keyboard! That keyboard had several different designs of switch! It looks like the switch manufacturer built the switches from a pile of different parts. Some parts may be real Cherry, and some are fake. It's very confusing!

About PCB board，I found a very strange switch，Board has CherryLOGO，But not on the switch.

This is a keyboard from a DECwriter printing terminal from DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation, also known as Digital). The PCB is made by Cherry, but the [wiki]switch grid[/wiki] was made by Hi-Tek Corporation, and comprises [wiki]Hi-Tek linear[/wiki] switches. Nobody knows why.

And this early color darker Cherry MX BLUE,It is highly unlikely fake，Because it has a known source.

The PCB says "HY8001C". I don't recognise "HY". It seems to be a cheap keyboard from an obscure brand that nobody's heard about. The PCB is marked "1995", which is quite recent, and therefore it is likely to be made cheaply.

Therefore, the switches are quite likely to be fake. If this was made in 1985 then they would most likely be real Cherry!

There may be an early mold imperfections，So there will be fuzzy LOGO.

There are two possibilities:

1) the switches are fake; there is no evidence that Cherry have bad moulds

2) Cherry authorised a factory in Taiwan to make Cherry switches and use the Cherry name

At least two factories made Alps switches: Gold Star Alps in Korea, and Forward Electronics in Taiwan. Gold Star Alps switches are nicely made. I think all the poorly-made Alps switches came from Forward Electronics. The internal parts were still good, and I assume those came from Korea or Japan.

We know that Hirose Cherry in Japan made Cherry switches. It is possible that another factory made authorised Cherry MX switches cheaply, but there is no evidence to support this theory yet.

I feel so sorry，Because of my recent lack of time and translation problems，So the article updates very slowly，Because the translation involves many professional terms，I need a lot of time to find information，To solve the problem at home and abroad that a different name for the same object.

This may help:



The terms vary: we don't all call things by the same names. The plunger is normally called a "slider", but in Cherry switches it is called a "stem". I now use "keystem" to refer to the part of the plunger/slider that holds the keycap. Some switches don't have a keystem.

On its plunger，Some have a notch, some do not，And the direction of the notches is also different，I found very early switches without this notch，I would like to know its purpose.

The only thing I notice is that it seems to be where the sprue attaches during moulding. The notch may keep the sprue out of the way. I have never found any other explanation for it. The small bit that sticks up on clicky Cherry MX switches is called a "cam" and shows that the switch has "movement differential" (which is where the click sound comes from); I have no idea why Cherry wanted to mark these switches with small peg! I only know that old Cherry documentation explains why it's there.

Thank you, Mr. Daniel Beardsmore.I have a few questions，Does Cherry produce MX Yellow?How do you know those seemingly real switches did not replaced Cherry shell？About 1995I'm not sure if it means date.But other things show，It does not seem like a fake.Thank you very much for your answers to other questions，This will be very helpful to me！

[Rimrul]

Cherry officially states they don't produce MX yellow switches:
http://blog.cherry.de/news/cherry-mx-yellow-sind-fake/

[UncleFan]

Cherry officially states they don't produce MX yellow switches:
http://blog.cherry.de/news/cherry-mx-yellow-sind-fake/

You are right！I've read this blog，But the official recognition of the switch does not seem much，Many of the early switches did not seem to have been proven to exist，So sometimes seems less reliable official

[UncleFan]

This is an ordinary switch，Cherry MX Clear，A tactile switch，It seems doesn't need too much text to introduce，In Cherry MX Clear’s family，It is very representative.
这是一个普通的段落式白轴，关于它似乎不需要很多的文字介绍，在樱桃白色系轴体家族里，它是具有代表性。

[UncleFan]

Cherry MX Linear Clear，Perhaps many people do not know the MX Clear has a linear version，In fact, not only, but many.This is an early linear switch，there are figures on its plunger.Maybe it represents the production batch.It comes from a PCB what manufactured in Costar Electronics Inc TaiWan.Different from the Hirose Cherry MX Linear Clear，its plunger size and the same as normal MX switches.It is worth mentioning that its plunger hasn't a notch.Dismantling Figure looks at a glance，Can be compared with the Cherry MX Clear.
Cherry早期线性白轴，也许很多人不知道白轴还有线性感轴体，其实不仅有，而且很多，这是一款早期的线性白轴，在它的轴心上还有数字，也许是代表着批次，它出自台湾立宝生产的一块板子的，不同于日产线性白轴的就是，他的轴心大小与普通MX轴体一样，值得一提的是，它的轴心上也没有那个缺口，拆解图很明显，可以和普通白轴进行对比

[UncleFan]

This MX Clear is also a linear switch，Its top shell is very characteristic，Compared to ordinary MX Switches more short，But its bottom shell is longer than the ordinary switches.This makes the whole switch size has not changed，We call it "Cherry MX dwarfism Linear Clear".There are obvious contrasts In my photos.
这款白轴同样是一个线性白轴，它的轴盖很有特点，相比于普通轴体更为矮小，但它的底部却比普通轴体更长，这使得整个轴体尺寸没有发生变化，我们叫它“樱桃矮化线性白轴”。图上有很明显的对比。

[UncleFan]

This is my Chinese friend 's two photos，Presumably you all know him.Unfortunately，I do not have them，They are‘Cherry MX ALPS Clicky’and‘Cherry MX ALPS Linear’，My friend told me，Many have been given to others，He has no superfluous，I would like to collect them very much.If you have , please contact me，Thank you very much！
这两张图出自我一位中国朋友那里，想必大家也许会认识他，很遗憾我没有收集到这两款轴体，分别是方口青轴和方口黑轴，我的朋友告诉我说他已经没有多余的这两个轴体，很多送了出去，我很想收集到它们，如果你们哪位有的话请与我取得联系，非常感谢！

Cherry MX ALPS Clicky

IMG_3551.JPG (222.24 KiB) Viewed 6930 times

Cherry MX ALPS Linear

IMG_3552.JPG (193.2 KiB) Viewed 6930 times

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I would not call it a "dwarf" switch: it seems to be the same height as a normal Cherry MX switch. The difference is that the distance between the PCB and mounting plate is greater. In old keyboards, the mounting plate was high up from the PCB, but German standardisation effectively required that the mounting place be moved closer to the PCB.

See the following illustration:


[wiki]DIN standard[/wiki]

The "dwarfism" switch will be a customer-specific part.

The other photos are of no use without knowing the product they were taken from, and the year that these products were made. They could be 2000s, 1990s or 1980s parts. They could be real or fake (see Aristotle Yellow). They could be from keyboards or they could be from industrial machinery. They could be stock products, or they could be custom parts. Without having this information, you can't draw any conclusions. Not enough Cherry catalogues and brochures have been found yet to know exactly what was available for sale in the past.

I don't trust Costar either. I would not use Costar as an example of a brand who would only use genuine major brand parts. Costar don't make keyboards anyway; they subcontract the work to other companies. It's hard to tell whether similar/identical parts from different keyboards were due to shared subcontractors or simple copying. For example, that Deyi keyboard has the same design of feet (with the strange hooks) as Focus and Tai-Hao keyboards. It's very hard to determine just which companies really do own factories and mould/stamp/drill/assemble/solder their own parts. Did Focus ever make anything, or did they only design keyboards and subcontract out the manufacturing? Monterey are another example: the K110 (as in the SIIG MiniTouch) was made in two separate factories: one in Taiwan (using SMK switches) and one in China (using Himake switches). I guess this was two separate subcontractors.

[seebart]

...They are‘Cherry MX ALPS Clicky’and‘Cherry MX ALPS Linear’

This is one for Chyrosan 22.

[Chyros]

...They are‘Cherry MX ALPS Clicky’and‘Cherry MX ALPS Linear’

This is one for Chyrosan 22.

Even Cherry had their moments, right?

[seebart]

...They are‘Cherry MX ALPS Clicky’and‘Cherry MX ALPS Linear’

This is one for Chyrosan 22.

Even Cherry had their moments, right?

Well, more like an exotic Asian clone moment! This proves once again that Cherry has it's own clone vortex, possibly not as vast as the Alps vortex but still...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

:o :? This is one for Chyrosan 22. :P

Keep up! We've known about them for years — the person that UncleFan is referring to (Brother Dragon) is a member here and he posted his own pictures. They're all listed under [wiki]Cherry MX[/wiki].

[Chyros]

This is one for Chyrosan 22.

Keep up! We've known about them for years — the person that UncleFan is referring to (Brother Dragon) is a member here and he posted his own pictures. They're all listed under [wiki]Cherry MX[/wiki].

Indeed, I wish I had these, just like those ProWorld switches. I've been wondering about these for a while, I really wonder where/what keyboard they came from.

[UncleFan]

I would not call it a "dwarf" switch: it seems to be the same height as a normal Cherry MX switch. The difference is that the distance between the PCB and mounting plate is greater. In old keyboards, the mounting plate was high up from the PCB, but German standardisation effectively required that the mounting place be moved closer to the PCB.

See the following illustration:


[wiki]DIN standard[/wiki]

The "dwarfism" switch will be a customer-specific part.

The other photos are of no use without knowing the product they were taken from, and the year that these products were made. They could be 2000s, 1990s or 1980s parts. They could be real or fake (see Aristotle Yellow). They could be from keyboards or they could be from industrial machinery. They could be stock products, or they could be custom parts. Without having this information, you can't draw any conclusions. Not enough Cherry catalogues and brochures have been found yet to know exactly what was available for sale in the past.

I don't trust Costar either. I would not use Costar as an example of a brand who would only use genuine major brand parts. Costar don't make keyboards anyway; they subcontract the work to other companies. It's hard to tell whether similar/identical parts from different keyboards were due to shared subcontractors or simple copying. For example, that Deyi keyboard has the same design of feet (with the strange hooks) as Focus and Tai-Hao keyboards. It's very hard to determine just which companies really do own factories and mould/stamp/drill/assemble/solder their own parts. Did Focus ever make anything, or did they only design keyboards and subcontract out the manufacturing? Monterey are another example: the K110 (as in the SIIG MiniTouch) was made in two separate factories: one in Taiwan (using SMK switches) and one in China (using Himake switches). I guess this was two separate subcontractors.

Thanks again for your information！That is to say，The "dwarfism" switch ，It is a product of adaptability.Is there anything else besides "dwarfism" Linear Clear ?Evidently， Many special switches，Are from Taiwan OEM.
再次感谢您的资料，也就是说，这个矮化开关是适应性的定制产物，请问除了白轴还有其他的吗？看样子，在中国很多特殊开关基本来自台湾代工

[UncleFan]

This is one for Chyrosan 22.

Keep up! We've known about them for years — the person that UncleFan is referring to (Brother Dragon) is a member here and he posted his own pictures. They're all listed under [wiki]Cherry MX[/wiki].

Indeed, I wish I had these, just like those ProWorld switches. I've been wondering about these for a while, I really wonder where/what keyboard they came from.

My friend told me，It is from Taiwan's keyboard factory to get，It is Stock samples.

[seebart]

This is one for Chyrosan 22.

Keep up! We've known about them for years — the person that UncleFan is referring to (Brother Dragon) is a member here and he posted his own pictures. They're all listed under [wiki]Cherry MX[/wiki].

Yes this quite clearly shows my lack of interest for Cherry, the one keyboard brand that I could find a lot of where I live.

[Mr.Nobody]

As a minimalist, I stick to buckling springs, myriad multifarious Cherry switches and keycaps make me dizzy.

I am here only to support my fellow aFan

[Menuhin]

As a minimalist, I stick to buckling springs, myriad multifarious Cherry switches and keycaps make me dizzy.

I am here only to support my fellow aFan

Choice of buckling springs is quite limited before projects such as this one:
https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/
And unlike IBM (PC division), Lenovo is not developing any keyboard mechanism.
Sorry for the off-topic.

The illustrations above are so detailed!
They look like they are from a catalogue or if someone created them for the Wiki I'll be quite amazed.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The illustrations above are so detailed! :shock:
They look like they are from a catalogue or if someone created them for the Wiki I'll be quite amazed.

The photos, you mean? They're incomplete: none of them show the details of the switch contacts. The switch contact design changed at some point, and I don't know when. The only confirmed, dated example of the old contacts is snuci's 1984 Cherry MX Black keyboard. [wiki]Taiwan white and black shaft[/wiki] switches all have contacts based on Cherry's original design, as does [wiki]Teton Cherry MX clone[/wiki], which makes me wonder just how new or old the Teton switches are. (They're NOS on AliExpress, with no details, and I have no idea who Teton are.) I would have thought that Cherry would have changed the design long before Taiwan white and black shaft came out, but there is a clear lack of dated evidence for the two designs of switch contact.

Photos of the bottom of the switch are also useful, because it would show the typeface used for the mould numbering/marking as well as whether the diode symbol has a line through it:



There's far more to researching Cherry switches that the aesthetics of the photographs. In addition to getting the source equipment (with dates), each switch should be fully disassembled:





(Important note: removing the movable contact takes great care! A failed attempt will ruin the switch contact. Those of a hasty disposition should not attempt it.)

[wiki]Aristotle Yellow[/wiki] as you can see has the newer design of contacts. Something I noted on the wiki page is that the inner surface doesn't have the same vivid orange glow that you get from German Cherry parts, which is curious. The parts are the exact shape (right down to that little dimple) but are made from a different material or have a different finish. Even the dirty old MX–M8 adapter switches I bought used off AliExpress have this glow. This still proves nothing yet as more switches need to be tested, but it does make me wonder if even those parts are replicas.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Another thing you learn from seeing the terminals, is whether the switch is used. Used switches are likely to be production models, while unused switches are potentially samples that did not go into production (as is suspected to be the case with [wiki]Hua-Jie AKF Cherry MX mount[/wiki]).

[Menuhin]

I guess there were some 'bastard' situations for Cherry in the stories of the orange MX switches and the yellow MX switches:
Part of their projects were out-sourced but not totally out-sourced for the convenience of the Japanese and Taiwan companies, so these companies might be using some authentic parts but then also providing their own, e.g. spring for example. These are afterwards not officially recognized.

Just one way I am making things up to fit the story.

To prove with 100% confidence that a switch is from Cherry is not so easy, except a switch is attached to a factory sealed Cherry board. Is that anything equivalent to carbon dating, DNA testing, or ballistic signature examination, etc for the plastic parts and the metal parts?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

By orange, you mean [wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Orange[/wiki]? Those came from Hirose Cherry Precision, which is why some [wiki]Hirose Cherry MX Clear[/wiki] switches are branded "HCP". Hirose Cherry Precision, AKA 「ヒロセチェリー」 (Hirose Cherry) or simply "Cherry Japan", was a joint venture company. They're now [wiki]HST[/wiki] (Hirose Sensing Technology, not to be confused with the InterCity 125 of course).

Hirose is all legitimate.

I am sure there are ways to test switches in the manner you suggest, but you would need someone in the community with the knowledge, skills and access to the appropriate laboratory equipment.

I've already cited some obvious characteristics of note. The real problem isn't getting lab access, but rather, the knowledge of 33 years of Cherry manufacturing processes! Since we will never have this, we need to start out with getting physical examples of genuine and suspect keyboards and compare the parts along with the dates. So long as we have something to test, we can test it. If we have nothing to test, then we cannot.

[Menuhin]

Right, by "orange", I'm talking about the Hirose switches.
So my guess about Cherry's situation: wife in Germany, legal foreign wife in Japan, bastards (those 'yellows' with seemingly genuine factory parts) with complications in Taiwan/China + some proclaimed Cherry's off-springs but actually fake.

... the knowledge of 33 years of Cherry manufacturing processes ...

For sure after the next mini or not-so-mini ice age, human beings will start from the pre-Cherry time, perhaps a Datahand-with-Hall-effect age.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Cherry Germany is its own wife? Eh what?

[Menuhin]

Cherry Germany is its own wife? Eh what?

Like ... asexual reproduction. There's not much chemistry, but they reproduce anyways, and reproduce a lot and a lot. Like those aphids. And the offsprings are very ... Cherry, not much of a hybrid of any other thing.