Alps Appreciation

[Mattr567]

Rare does not equal better, that's why this is pathetic.

Makes me even more interested to see how the SKCL Amber's that are in a Tandem 6526 I got off ohaimark are going to be. Those are probably the rarest of all time outside of the "Heavy" switches like SKCL Heavy Gray.

Tandem's aren't even supposed to have SKCL Amber. Normally their SKCL Brown w/ an SKCL Amber spacebar but this one is 100% Amber

[E3E]

Rare does not equal better, that's why this is pathetic.

Makes me even more interested to see how the SKCL Amber's that are in a Tandem 6526 I got off ohaimark are going to be. Those are probably the rarest of all time outside of the "Heavy" switches like SKCL Heavy Gray.

Tandem's aren't even supposed to have SKCL Amber. Normally their SKCL Brown w/ an SKCL Amber spacebar but this one is 100% Amber

When you start trying to claim which switch is the rarest, things become a bit slippery. The specialty switches like those found in Canon typewriters and various japanese Alps boards are probably the rarest speaking from quantity found alone, but...

I dunno.

Nevermind, I'm not going to try and tier the rarity of them, haha.

[Mattr567]

Rare does not equal better, that's why this is pathetic.

Makes me even more interested to see how the SKCL Amber's that are in a Tandem 6526 I got off ohaimark are going to be. Those are probably the rarest of all time outside of the "Heavy" switches like SKCL Heavy Gray.

Tandem's aren't even supposed to have SKCL Amber. Normally their SKCL Brown w/ an SKCL Amber spacebar but this one is 100% Amber

When you start trying to claim which switch is the rarest, things become a bit slippery. The specialty switches like those found in Canon typewriters and various japanese Alps boards are probably the rarest speaking from quantity found alone, but...

I dunno.

Nevermind, I'm not going to try and tier the rarity of them, haha.

Lol

SKCL Amber's are definitely quite up there at least. The only other people who have them have SKCL Brown boards (which are rare enough) and they only have 1 per spacebar.

How good they are is entirely based on someone's perspective however. I just hope their not too heavy

[ohaimark]

It's worth noting that the Ambers in the Tandem all have a red "lipstick" mark on them. So they're extra special.

[Mattr567]

It's worth noting that the Ambers in the Tandem all have a red "lipstick" mark on them. So they're extra special.

Woah, they all do?! That's crazy. Special factory order perhaps. What is their weighting?

I kinda feel bad now knowing that i'm going to desolder them and put them in KBP V80 but I will try my hardest to preserve the board. It deserves that.

The red liptick must have come off those couple of exposed ones from the pic's.

[ohaimark]

It's vomit yellow. Its design is also quite inefficient. It uses 4 different types of screws, for example.

So don't be ashamed.

[alh84001]

Just got another quote for skcm greens
"We have only stock available of the SKCMAT, $25.00 ea"

[mike52787]

Just got another quote for skcm greens
"We have only stock available of the SKCMAT, $25.00 ea"

Thats just unreasonable

[seebart]

When you start trying to claim which switch is the rarest, things become a bit slippery.

Exactly, sure it's interesting to find out but that's about it. With this super rare stuff it also becomes problematic in that we often cannot verify it if only one person has that particular object, then we start giving it exotic names...quite unprofessional IMO.

[Hypersphere]

Does anyone have any extra springs for SKCM Blue Alps switches to sell? I need at least one (1), but I would take more if you have them to spare. I've also posted a WTB. Thanks.

[mike52787]

Does anyone have any extra springs for SKCM Blue Alps switches to sell? I need at least one (1), but I would take more if you have them to spare. I've also posted a WTB. Thanks.

I can send you a few, I completely forgot to send out your switch plates so Ill do that and throw in a few springs.

[Hypersphere]

@mike52787: Excellent!!! You can PM me with your price for the springs and switch plates plus postage. BTW -- at the moment, I am looking for the cylindrical helical return springs, not the click leaves.

Someone else told me that the springs in SKCM blue Alps are identical to those in SKCM white Alps. Is this true? I have some springs from Matias switches, and they are definitely longer than the springs from blue switches, but I don't have any disassembled SKCM white Alps switches at this time in order to make a comparison.

[Chyros]

Someone else told me that the springs in SKCM blue Alps are identical to those in SKCM white Alps. Is this true?

No. They are distinctly different, and are goldish in colour, even. However, Some early white Alps retain these springs. Most don't though. One of many things changed over time.

[Hypersphere]

@Chyros: When you do your detailed tear-down of various Alps switches, perhaps you could do a scientific analysis of such things as the force-constant of the return springs, or at least a comparison of length, gauge of wire, and number of coils. This could help greatly with either supporting or refuting various myths about alleged similarities or differences among components of these switches. Thanks!

[Chyros]

@Chyros: When you do your detailed tear-down of various Alps switches, perhaps you could do a scientific analysis of such things as the force-constant of the return springs, or at least a comparison of length, gauge of wire, and number of coils. This could help greatly with either supporting or refuting various myths about alleged similarities or differences among components of these switches. Thanks!

I don't have access to a force meter or anything that could accurately gauge this, but I do hope that the pictures will show the length and amount of turns of the coils, as well as the material. Of course, with white Alps in particular, there are so many variations that one specimen could never represent all the types that were produced over the years. But I'll try my best .

I mainly hope my camera will be good enough .

[Hypersphere]

Chyros, I am sure that whatever you do will be greatly appreciated by all us Alps appreciators! Your camera should indeed be capable of capturing relative length and number of coils in the return springs, although it can only hint at the material. Maybe you could sacrifice a bit of each spring to get atomic emission spectra.

[E3E]

Someone else told me that the springs in SKCM blue Alps are identical to those in SKCM white Alps. Is this true?

No. They are distinctly different, and are goldish in colour, even. However, Some early white Alps retain these springs. Most don't though. One of many things changed over time.

They aren't always gold. They're sometimes shiny (stainless?) or dull as well. There's a lot of variation in ALL Alps springs. I've also seen this with Salmon Alps and Alps SKCM Green, all switches I have a lot of time disassembling and reassembling (416 SKCM Green switches disassembled, dusted with the last 83 top swapped).

With Salmons, I've mainly seen brass/gold springs but some springs were silver in color.

I don't think it's safe to say anything with any degree of certainty about the springs other than there's a lot of variation in appearance even within the same batch.

Weight and such is a more consistent thing, of course, but appearance is all over the place.

[Chyros]

Chyros, I am sure that whatever you do will be greatly appreciated by all us Alps appreciators! Your camera should indeed be capable of capturing relative length and number of coils in the return springs, although it can only hint at the material. Maybe you could sacrifice a bit of each spring to get atomic emission spectra.

Ha, if only I had access to any scientific apparatus at the moment :p .

[Hypersphere]

Decided to make some additional changes to one of my LE DC-3014 SKCM blue Alps keyboards. Although I like the sound and feel of the dye-sub PBT caps from the SGI Granite, I don't like the Italic font and the size and weight of the font, especially on the F-keys. Therefore, I made some changes. The alphas are now dye-sub PBT from an IBM 5140. The white F-keys and NumPad number keys are doubleshot ABS from a Northgate Omnikey 101. The WoB keys are Tai-Hao doubleshot ABS, and the blank black keys are ABS from Matias.

dc-3014a3.jpg (153.26 KiB) Viewed 9605 times

dc-3014a2.jpg (243.42 KiB) Viewed 9605 times

dc-3014a1.jpg (159.75 KiB) Viewed 9605 times

No further changes were made to the case colors -- the top case was painted burgundy red and the bottom case was painted flat black with Dupli-Color Vinyl & Fabric spray coating.

Previously, the LE emblem was just sitting in place and not mounted with adhesive. Now, it is mounted with "Octopus Glue" clear double-sided adhesive tape, 2 mm wide and 0.15 mm thick, available from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0163JMPWM

Despite the mixed origins of the keycaps, the profiles match and the colors and textures are close enough not to be jarring to the eye, especially when in actual use rather than being scrutinized in a photo. I also don't notice the difference in keycap composition when typing because most of the time my fingers are in contact with the dye-sub PBT alpha keys. I do, however, really appreciate the dry feel of PBT when I compare this setup with another keyboard that has stock doubleshot ABS caps on all of the keys.

It can be a challenge to cover a full-size Alps-switch keyboard with keycaps to your liking, but this particular Frankenboard approach works well for me.

Time to send Igor to do more harvesting ....

[Mattr567]

Thought I'd crosspost from the Geekhack Alps Appereciation thread:

So, a new Alps switch discovery had been made. There are two SKCL Amber: SKCL Amber and SKCL Striped Amber. The Tandem is the source for this.

The standard SKCL Amber's in the board have this red vertical stripe which I have not seen used on any other switch. This is different from the known "lipstick" since it is only a thin vertical line while the lipstick covers the whole top of the stem. This Amber is much lighter. Somewhere between SKCL Green and SKCL Brown. A bit more than SKCL Yellow i'd say.

The spacebar SKCL Amber (which we have known and has been found on many other SKCL Brown boards as the spacebar) is different! It's much heavier like SKCL Brown or Cream and doesn't have the red vertical stripe. That's how they tell the difference. Also the lock switch is Brown.

SKCL Striped Amber (at least that's what i'm calling it) is one of the rarest switches to date, especially considering it's not a weird one off one. It's a moderately weighted linear made for standard use.
Pics:

[Hypersphere]

Regarding the striped amber Alps switches, is the stripe intrinsic to the plastic or was it painted or printed onto the slider after the slider was produced? It would be good if you could measure the actuation force and take pics of all the components for the DT wiki.

[ohaimark]

It was painted/printed on. I sold mattr and E3E keyboards containing the switches. One of them had exposed sliders with worn-off lipstick.

[Hypersphere]

Fascinating. It would be interesting to know the history of these ad hoc arrangements for Alps switches.

[ohaimark]

My bet is that one color of slider ran low, leading them to use random stock. Or it was a custom order. -shrugs-

[E3E]

It was painted/printed on. I sold mattr and E3E keyboards containing the switches. One of them had exposed sliders with worn-off lipstick.

The other examples of "lipstick" I've seen with Alps switches have been with Alps SKCL Green switches intended as space bar switches, the recently noted "Alps SKCL Heavy Cream" switches from Sharp X68000 keyboards, and these.

My bet is that one color of slider ran low, leading them to use random stock. Or it was a custom order. -shrugs-

My vote is for little bit of A, little bit of B.

The weights are not the same as Alps SKCL Brown or SKCL Green or SKCL Yellow.

Perhaps it was a custom order for a particular weight variation but they decided to just use Amber sliders (or had no other option) for the switches and so needed to distinguish them with the marks.

[E3E]

The SKCL Striped Amber looks like it's ready for war.

So from left to right, I have SKCL Brown, SKCL Green, SKCL Yellow, SKCL Striped Amber, SKCL Blue (click leaf removed), SKCL Grey.

I'm also going to test SKCL Cream as well as the LED version of SKCL Green as I feel it is heavier than normal SKCL Green.

[Chyros]

Other manufacturers hand-marked certain switches for weight as well, often spacebar switches or LED ones.

[E3E]

So, how I measure is going from something that is sure to bottom out the switch, then reducing the weight until the switch no longer bottoms completely, then add and reduce weight as needed, usually placing the entire stack of coins on the switch slider at once very lightly so that there's no added factor that could be skewing the measurement.

I do this several times until I get a consistent result. Still, there may always be something throwing off the weight, but here's what I've got.

Approx bottom out weights:

SKCL Brown - 70g

SKCL Cream - 70g

SKCL Green - 50g

SKCL LED Green - 67.5g

SKCL Yellow - 60g

SKCL Striped Amber - 55g

SKC[L] Blue - 55g

SKCL Grey - 80g

I would imagine SKCL Amber would be 80g or more. Can't test at the moment.

[alh84001]

Very nice set of info E3E, thanks! Especially interesting is the difference between LED greens and non-LED greens. Any thoughts on which one of these can be put into "families" based on feel?

BTW, I didn't know there was more than one of these boards floating around

[E3E]

Very nice set of info E3E, thanks! Especially interesting is the difference between LED greens and non-LED greens. Any thoughts on which one of these can be put into "families" based on feel?

BTW, I didn't know there was more than one of these boards floating around

You're welcome! That little foam block was a great way to mount the switches for testing without any hassle, hehe.

Putting them into families is a little difficult. It depends on perspective a bit, I think.


SKCL Grey, SKCL Amber - the heaviest SKCL switches barring the specialty switches

SKCL Cream and SKCL Brown - nearly exact, any difference in feel might be placebo

SKCL LED Green - Could go either up or down and find a place with either group

SKCL Yellow - got a little heft to them but not too much

SKCL Striped Amber - Feels a bit like a cushiony SKCL Green (which has no cushion at all). Like LED Green, you can pair it with SKCL Yellow or SKCL Green, but it'd probably be better on its own.

SKCL Green - Light and airy but no real cushiony feeling.

Ultimately, if you wanted to make something like a variable weighted Alps keyboard (ignoring SPRiT's aftermarket springs), then you could blend all of these together into an interesting mix.

I'd say my favorite linears are SKCL Brown and SKCL Striped Amber; second place was formerly occupied by SKCL Green, but Striped Amber has everything SKCL Green has and a more pleasant cushion to it.

MattR felt like SKCL Yellows were lighter, but comparing them, I did feel like they were heavier. I had a feeling Striped Ambers might be the same weighting as SKCM Blues without their click leaves, and this turned out to be the case.