Tim Cook's letter to customers

[ohaimark]

I can see where you are coming from. Although I think poison or overdosing on medication would work too and those relatively painless...

... idiots will always have access to deadly weaponry when you think about it. Automobile deaths are wayyyy more common than guns related ones. Its hard to think about what to do there. Ban all cars?

A militia isn't a bad idea either. But one thing that worries me about that is then the average joe can't protect himself when someone breaks into his house. Personal protection if something to take into account too.

Medication-based suicide can be very long and painful unless you use very specific substances. I know this because one of my ex girlfriends tried to O.D. on Aspirin and slit her wrists -- vertically, not horizontally, as it's more effective that way. Her attempt was unsuccessful, mostly due to the side-effects of the aspirin O.D.

I went through an NRA pistol course too. I'd love to see the Feds coordinate with the NRA to educate and inform citizens of their rights when creating a gun control program. It'd be an attempt to bring the best of both worlds to the table.

You make my point for me. Idiots still drive automobiles, but unlicensed/untested/untrained idiots or people so inept that they lose their license are not allowed to use them, reducing the amount of deaths caused by said idiots. The police enforce those laws, just as they do any other that falls in their jurisdiction. Just replace "drive" with "shoot" and "automobiles" with "guns" and you have my argument.

As to the average Joe protecting himself... It's a valid concern. It'd be better to install a security door and reinforced walls/windows in one's bedroom -- a "safe room," as it were, completely negating confrontations. Untrained firearm owners wouldn't need to risk their lives at all, then. All that takes is a change in building code. Let the police and insurance take care of the offender (or call your friendly neighborhood gun expert, who would have the training to intervene). If the robbers start using bombs, breaking down walls, or using something to get into the secure room before a civilian militiaman or cop arrived we'd have bigger problems than firearms.

[andrewjoy]

From the outside it looks as if guns are out of control in america. I don't even know how you would tackle the issue.

The problem you have is there are so many firearms that its an arms race , the criminals have guns so the police need bigger guns so the criminals need bigger guns .... where does it end.

In such a big open country i can see how a shotgun or a hunting rifle is required to protect yourself from wildlife and so on, but the fact that you can buy an assault rifle or a sub machine gun or a 50 cal snipers rifle is just wrong , what do you need them for , they are not for protection or for hunting , they have one function , to kill someone, they should never be available to the general public.

The whole idea of "protecting yourself " from the criminals and you need a gun and a security door is nonsense, the fear of crime has skyrocketed but the crime numbers are down year on year. The problem is that its always pushed to scare people so you buy a gun , fit an expensive security system and let your government pass every terrible piece of legislation in the name of safety.

Don't even get me started on the i need the gun to protect myself form the federal government crap absolute nut-jobs.

[Muirium]

Those whackjobs are the guys with the guns. Most Americans do not have one. The only places I see them when I'm over there are on law enforcement and in gunshops. Of course, over here you don't even see them there either!

Guns are a totem. Like abortion and immigration. We ain't out of the woods yet. It'll take generational change, like so many big things do.

[Redmaus]

The problem you have is there are so many firearms that its an arms race , the criminals have guns so the police need bigger guns so the criminals need bigger guns .... where does it end.

What? Bigger guns is not it lol. Cops use pistols and criminals rarely use anything other than handguns in crime.

In such a big open country i can see how a shotgun or a hunting rifle is required to protect yourself from wildlife and so on, but the fact that you can buy an assault rifle or a sub machine gun or a 50 cal snipers rifle is just wrong , what do you need them for , they are not for protection or for hunting , they have one function , to kill someone, they should never be available to the general public.

What if someone just likes them and wants to shoot at the range? You don't need all those keyboards, you won't use them for everyday typing and not gaming, so what could you possibly want them for? Tactile feel?

Every hobby has its own enthusiasts, even gun owners.

The whole idea of "protecting yourself " from the criminals and you need a gun and a security door is nonsense, the fear of crime has skyrocketed but the crime numbers are down year on year. The problem is that its always pushed to scare people so you buy a gun , fit an expensive security system and let your government pass every terrible piece of legislation in the name of safety.

Don't even get me started on the i need the gun to protect myself form the federal government crap absolute nut-jobs.

Why is protection nonsense? Even if its decreasing, which you need a citation for anyway, its still happens. No matter how uncommon it still happens which means you need protection.

Throughout history governments has done unfair or cruel things to their citizens in times of desperation or fear. It really isn't that insane of an idea.

Those whackjobs are the guys with the guns. Most Americans do not have one. The only places I see them when I'm over there are on law enforcement and in gunshops. Of course, over here you don't even see them there either!

Guns are a totem. Like abortion and immigration. We ain't out of the woods yet. It'll take generational change, like so many big things do.

Aside from the only whackjobs are gunowners statement, what did you mean by immigration?

BTW, I am not sure you keep insinuating that guns will be leaving america. They will never go, unless the constitution is violated which is unlikely.

[Madhias]

But one thing that worries me about that is then the average joe can't protect himself when someone breaks into his house. Personal protection if something to take into account too.

That 'someone' has then a weapon too, in most cases probably Is then a shoot out happening? I am just curious how that self protection should always work. The faster one wins? Would you hide first, and then shoot out of the dark? Or jump out of the window and hide in some plants, and shoot when the bad girl or guy come out again?

[seebart]

It always works exactly like this Madhias:

[andrewjoy]

In the UK the rank and file police officer does not carry a gun , because of this the average criminal at most has a knife if that criminal knows the bobby on the beat has a glock in his pocket he will think again about a gun , and start to carry one , it will escalate and so on.

So if i decide its ok to collect active nukes is that ok ? Keyboards cannot kill people guns can.

Yes crime does happen, people also get run over when crossing the street or get struck by lightning does that mean you should only ever use a bridge or tunnel to cross the road or never leave the hose without your faraday cage ? Is it worth the risk or having a gun in the house or spending 20 grand on a safe room for that 1 in a million chance it happens , most people i know would say its not. all that hyper security safe room and security door does not only keep the crims out , it keeps you locked in too.

Don't get me wrong , guns are cool, shooting a high powered rifle at a range is fine , or anything else ( i would love to shoot a p90 for example), but its not something you should be able to have under the stairs. It should have to be kept in a controlled environment at a range where its secured and locked. This is standard practice in the UK , you can go shooting but its controlled you cannot just rock up with your own SA-80 and plug away , a professional has the gun and you rent his time and the gun.

[Madhias]

It always works exactly like this Madhias:

That is great, really great I love that movies!

[Redmaus]

Sorry I messed up on that keyboard point

To an extent yeah lightning could strike you, you could die in earthquake, etc. You can't be prepared for everything. But gun protection equals it all out. If it weren't for guns then it would make protection hard for women and other people that aren't burly dudes.

I don't think people should really own that kind of stuff either I had a brain freeze or something on that keyboard point I think only military or people with lots of experience should be able to own automatics and most importantly, easily concealable smgs.

So much typing on mobile my thumbs hurt!

[Muirium]

Ultimately guns will surely leave America, as the Earth is fried by the dying Sun! But I do hold out the reasonable hope that guns will be rendered as antique curiosities like stocks and gallows in America as well as elsewhere. They're just as daft to have around as a flail but much more conveniently deadly. As bad as ideas ever get in society!

[andrewjoy]

My main point i try to make is , don't give in to the cycle of fear, its not healthy. In some circumstances you may need a firearm to protect yourself but if you listen to the media there is a rapeist behind every tree and a terrorist behind every bush , and thats simply not the case.

They need to improve the rules , yes you can have a gun in your home but it has to be locked away with the ammo in a separate locked cabinet. And you should have to have a gun licence and they should be VERRY strict, you should not just have to observe the waiting period.

[Muirium]

Andysplainin'

Oh wouldn't it be nice…

Sure. But how do we get there from here? I see this every time in your suggestions. Like the one about stopping Muslims from raising their children Muslim. (Which I object to even in principle.) How the duck do we go about doing that? Mass abduction? 1984 style thought police? Gestapo? The ends justify the means?

Fuck it. Let's go to the beach and get baked. Woooo! Sanders party!

[Redmaus]

Andysplainin'

Oh wouldn't it be nice…

Sure. But how do we get there from here? I see this every time in your suggestions. Like the one about stopping Muslims from raising their children Muslim. (Which I object to even in principle.) How the duck do we go about doing that? Mass abduction? 1984 style thought police? Gestapo? The ends justify the means?

Fuck it. Let's go to the beach and get baked. Woooo! Sanders party!

I never said Muslims shouldn't be able to raise their children.

And if you truly are an advocate of socialism, I don't know what to say.

[Muirium]

The post is addressed to Andy. Not you, Redmaus. He and I battled back in the "Paris" thread too.

I'm typing on glass today, too. So my apologies for not dissecting quote blocks and such. Much easier to type than to edit in DT's desktop design when on an iPhone. Write only interface: perfect for politics rants!

[Redmaus]

Oh whoops

I love these thread derails

[Muirium]

I choose to read that without any sarcasm!

[seebart]

Oh whoops

I love these thread derails

I'd say this is the offtopicthority thread so far, that's why I will now continue with this:

Mitt Romney Attacks Donald Trump as ‘a Phony’ and ‘a Fraud’:

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-d ... ald-trump/

John McCain urges voters to think 'long and hard' before picking Trump:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/j ... ney-220178

in other news menstruating Megyn Kelly will be back for the next Trumpet debate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/us/po ... ebate.html

[photekq]

Mick Ronnie and the others can do all they want; at this point it will take a miracle, and not a minor one, for anyone but Trump to win the Republican nomination.

[webwit]

But hey, keep not mentioning Clinton who has been the subject of various criminal investigations, driven the elderly out of their homes and has caused many thousands of deaths of innocent people.
http://www.mrctv.org/blog/10-scandals-i ... -forgotten
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/12/ ... rward.html
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/ ... m_20160224
http://liberallyconservative.com/hillar ... t-of-lies/

It's very particular, even the comments about Clinton at a left British newspaper completely destroy her:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016 ... ate-server

For example:

Would you really want this sloppy idiot as a President? If it's a vote between Hillary and Trump I would say the best course of action for Americans is to simply commit suicide instead of enduring the coming apocalypse.

So she is a proven sociopath and a criminal in office. Trump is just a narcissist businessman. Could turn out to be a sociopath, a killer or a criminal in office, but it is not proven yet.

[seebart]

Yeah it's a real mess. Plus this strategy of denouncing him is just what he wants, "the underdog that comes out as the winner" card he's playing very well at this point. He's businessman and a showman. He keeps it simple which is very clever. The only time I saw anyone counter that is that clip of Rubio on the previous page.

Yeah webwit I know you like all of them a lot. Now what's going on with old Bernie, is he even still in the race?

[Muirium]

White male millennials like him. Everyone else… not so much.

I'm pleased that Bernie's down and out. Trump has the republican nomination in his pocket. Bernie would have been his golden lottery ticket to the White House. Who can't beat a hard right wing blowhard? A hard left wing blowhard.

Oh, and here's one (from a more left English publication) for Webwit:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/el ... n-politics

[webwit]

That publication is so partisan it doesn't even mention bombing weddings, because that would be inconvenient. Who cares about those lives anyway?

Currently it's her race to lose. But now Trump has (almost) won he will get more of those white votes over H-1B from guys like this:
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/16/0 ... allow-this

And from attacking Clinton on all the things your article, and the Democrats, shoved under the carpet. She's such an easy target, because she actually has been the kind of nasty political power player people in general want to get rid of (protest votes for Trump), for all to see. The rhetoric against Trump will probably remain the same, no more ammo there. This will get really dirty.

[seebart]

Ladbrokes eh Mu? I'm not a player myself but hey why not. This race is kinda boring at this point for interesting bets though.

Yeah I'd say next to Trump Clinton is her own worst enemy in this race. She's just way too handicapped by her own past.

Here's Mitt's boring but honest Trump & Clinton rant:

[Findecanor]

That is great, really great I love that movies!

George Kennedy who played the chief, passed away this Sunday.

[Findecanor]

If we are going to slam Donald Trump^H^H^H^H^HDrumpf:

[webwit]

Not his best one I think. If an argument against him concentrates on his name, or his hair, then apparently you have no real arguments. While there's no lack of real arguments.

[seebart]

Actually I was suprised by Mitt Romney's speech, aside from obviously promoting Cruz and Rubio it's pretty honest coming from him. Of course they're all scared shitless now that Trump will win.

[Muirium]

Bookies? Nah. I've never spent a penny on any of them. Come from a long line of gamblers and boozers. I know how that story goes.

The Scottish Indy referendum got me into reading the pollsters. That industry, over here, is inseparable with political gambling. You often hear the odds on the BBC! It's a thoroughly English affair. Where there's action, there's action.

As a polling exercise, gamblers odds are quite informative. They climbed aboard the Trump bandwagon long before the mainstream media began to cotton on. The thing with political gamblers is they reckon they know more about what's going on than the participants! But they're greedy buggers first, narcissists second, so sudden turnarounds in the market give a quicker signal than you'll get from the players themselves. Far from infallible, but better data than most.

[webwit]

Hmm, an honest Goldman Sachs boy, a true fighter for the common man? I had to laugh. He forgot to mention why they are scared and attacking their own man. The republican party serves interests, which are not those of the people. Apparently they feel these interests are not served by Trump. A clarification about his real motivation is just the merest of omissions in his speech...

[Muirium]

Get a room already! Trump knows how to stroke your feathers.

(Until you're surely stuffed!)