Need advice on handling a major sale

[berserkfan]

I'm on the verge of my biggest ever sale, but am uncertain how to handle it.

1) I want to sell what I have for as much as I can get.

2) I want to avoid dealing with people with very few posts.

3) I want my stuff to go to as many people as possible. I know I'm going to make big losses no matter what, and I do not want to subsidize some collector. I WANT REAL USERS. I do not want to sell something I spent weeks working on, to some kid who displays it on his shelf.

4) I do not know the value of what I am selling, since nearly everything was modded without the intention to sell. Most of my Model M and F mods should be very usable for the general public, but the mods dearest to my heart - my jailhouse mods - have not elicited any enquiries to date.

5) I don't have time to negotiate with so many people I barely know, from two different forums, when I have many other items such as switches and keycaps to sell, etc.

Observations:

So far I have tried out the Price Check thread. I'm not getting any honest public responses to price and value estimates. I have received enquiries from longtime members like riotonthebay, but he didn't know what was a good price either.

Despite stating clearly repeatedly that things are not for sale now and this is the Price Check stage, I have received dozens of low ball offers on DA and GH from people with very few posts. A lot of kids are hoping to get something dirt cheap, but I'm not even sure if they know what they are getting because they have so few posts. They are not my ideal buyer.

Silent Auction

Right now I think my best bet is in a silent auction that XMIT suggested. To comply with Geekhack rules I will post an idealized price. Since the price is high, it is unlikely to sell. But I will consider offers under that price from either DA or GH members.

Then for the next 2 weeks I will look at the offers I receive. I will apply discounting to offers from people with very few posts. I will 'add value' to the offers from active members. EG I will definitely take a slightly lower offer from riotonthebay, over an offer from someone I don't know.

After 2 weeks I respond to the offers I like, people pay, stuff is sent out over the next few weeks.

Let's discuss this publicly. What is ok, and what is not. How to achieve my goals without violating any fine print rules. I don't want a zealous mod to step in suddenly and suspend my threads. Geekhack is full of zealous mods who will not hesitate to cut and paste all the rules. I am also not experienced with selling on DA, having mostly used it to enquire about Tipros in the past. Is silent auction allowed on DA? Will GH refuse to let me link to my DA thread?

[ohaimark]

Dude. GH sounds like Hell for salesmen.

1) That's cool, but you almost always take a loss in hobby sales. Just fair warning.

2) Good idea.

3) Displaying something on one's shelf isn't awful. If you want to get the most for your items, you need to sell the non-modded things to shelfers.

4) Mods really mess with market value. DT didn't have many answers for you because we don't usually mod stuff so deeply.

5) If you don't have time to negotiate you'll have to use an auction of some sort, which is what you're gravitating toward. I advise creating a Google Form that dumps results into a spreadsheet. That way it's quick for you and less painful than trying to do it via PM.

Observations:

Mods screw with prices. I'll go estimate your non modded stuff.

It's the internet. People don't care about what you say -- they'll try to get whatever they can by pure stubbornness.

Pretty much anything goes here at DT so long as you are transparent and honest about your methods from the start. So long as you follow through, everything is cool.

[Ray]

Well, mods are really hard to give a fair value for. Unless you are known to do well crafted mods, you won't get a superior price to just the materials used.

One could try to sell for a price that contains the time spent to mod it, but it would only sell to someone who is looking for exactly that mod, he believes you did an awesome job on it, and is not interested to do that mod himself. It might not sell for years until someone interested finds it.

As for teensy mods for boards that are supported by soarer's or TMK, I think you can add the cost of a teensy to the normal price. An additional 5 bucks if it has proper strain relief and everything.

Remember you are selling to enthusiasts here. Even though in your opinion the mod is good for the majority, it might not be the optimum for the individual. E.g. if I would buy any of your teensy modded boards, I would reflash it 99%.

As for jailbroken MX blues, hardly anyone here on DT has done that mod and/or tried one. I don't think you will find anyone here who can give a fair value for those.

[Khers]

[...]
E.g. if I would buy any of your teensy modded boards, I would reflash it 99%.
[...]

Flashing the Teensy with a new layout is hardly the time consuming part of adding a Teensy.

[seebart]

1.) Have good pictures. Prepare to show more when asked.
2.) Know your shipping costs worldwide including options.
3.) Be able to answer questions quickly.
4.) Don't get greedy, DT users know what keyboards are worth.
5.) If you do sell somewhere else simultaneously mention it.
6.) Have patience. Be flexible. Offer trades if possible.
7.) Give potential buyers a reserve option for a fair amount of time.

[Ray]

Flashing the Teensy with a new layout is hardly the time consuming part of adding a Teensy.

I was talking for the easy case where it has been done before. In that case, configuring to the layout I want takes me more time than wireing.
If the hardware part of the mod is well done add 5 bucks as I said.
Of course, if you think it should be valued differently, feel free to post something constructive.

[Redmaus]

What are "jailhouse" blues?

To be honest, reddit might actually be a good avenue for your sale. Reddit has a lot of newbies that don't have many keyboards.

There would be no reason for you to sell to me, or most of the users here. Your board wouldn't be used full time if I bought it, it would go into a board rotation or be resold later down the line.

[berserkfan]

sorry, grouchy post deleted. Redmaus, feel free to delete yours!

[Redmaus]

Done

[Scarpia]

I am one of those few-posts shelfers, so feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt (well technically I *am* a coder who would put my favorite mechanical board through fairly heavy use, but I only have two hands and if I own six sexy looking boards then you can bet that four or five of them are going to live out their lives on a shelf)

I know you are expecting to take a loss due to the "labor of love" factor inherent in any modding/restoration work; but I wonder if you are truly prepared for how big that loss is going to be if you sell inside the enthusiast circles. For one thing, your boards are modded for use and so their values increase if the buyer wants to use it - the chance of which increases the fewer boards the buyer owns. Secondly, while most of your boards would be the number one treasure in a newbie collection (like mine), for a lot of the high-posts users they might well be duplicates or very similar variations over multiple boards already in their collections, which again makes them less likely to fetch a fair price. And finally, by dropping a collection all at once, you briefly flood the market, and supply-and-demand takes yet another bite out of their values.

(Disclaimer: I have not made an offer on any of the boards, partially because I'm not worthy and they deserve to go to a better home, and partially because they haven't been put up for sale yet)

In short, I fear that those 'lowball' valuations made in public, and which you considered to not be serious, may be a very close estimate of what you'll end up getting for your boards if you sell them on here or GH. And if you aren't willing to bend that far, then perhaps you aren't ready to part with your collection yet. And I think noone here could blame you for that with a straight face

I do hope you do find a way to sell them that lets others enjoy the boards, and which lets you do it with a smile on your face.

[ohaimark]

Scarpia -- good advice.

[berserkfan]

Sorry Scalia, didn’t mean to sound offensive. ‘Not worthy’? It’s not that. It’s just that stuff is meant to be used. You have six boards? Me, over seventy. That’s why many must go.

I just have to put up with whatever lowballs that come my way. Can’t be helped. I am not going to pay for storage on things that I don’t use, so better owners are needed. The bolt modding and plate dremeling was really just a stress reliever for me. It’s therapeutic, so I already got something out of it that money can’t buy. Some people play sports, some drill holes. I did not start out planning this, but by now I have racked up over 2000 SIP sockets installed. Maybe that is my equivalent of running a marathon?

After several days of working through my thoughts, have decided to be pragmatic and sell to whoever will pay. If you are willing to fork out money presumably you value it.

[Scarpia]

No offense was taken, I do understand both the frustration and the desire to try to keep the boards in the community. I'm sure I'd do the same. And for the record, I think the silent auction is your best bet (with a stated reserve price maybe?). Furthermore, isn't Singapore the shipping container capital of the world? I wonder if you'd be better off shipping the lot to a trusted party in the U.S. and distributing them from there, to reduce the total shipping cost? (this wouldn't help us who live in the EU, but I think most of the members here are in the U.S., correct?

[scottc]

Incorrect. Most of us are European.

[berserkfan]

No offense was taken, I do understand both the frustration and the desire to try to keep the boards in the community. I'm sure I'd do the same. And for the record, I think the silent auction is your best bet (with a stated reserve price maybe?). Furthermore, isn't Singapore the shipping container capital of the world? I wonder if you'd be better off shipping the lot to a trusted party in the U.S. and distributing them from there, to reduce the total shipping cost? (this wouldn't help us who live in the EU, but I think most of the members here are in the U.S., correct?

'trusted party in the US'?

HAHAHAHAHA

My trusted party in the US screwed me of a lot of money and stuff not so long ago. There is NO party I trust in the US anymore. No offense Scalia, but if you are a kid, you have a lot to learn about not putting your eggs in one basket.

[Muirium]

Hmm. Getting burned always sucks, but letting that make you too defensive when dealing with *everyone else* isn't wise, either. There's a sweet spot in the middle between over-trusting (you'll get ripped off) and over-agressive (you'll never make any friends).

[Scarpia]

'trusted party in the US'?

HAHAHAHAHA

My trusted party in the US screwed me of a lot of money and stuff not so long ago. There is NO party I trust in the US anymore. No offense Scalia, but if you are a kid, you have a lot to learn about not putting your eggs in one basket.

(it's Scarpia, not Scalia)

I don't know if a 34 year-old still qualifies as a kid in the mechanical keyboard world, but I didn't mean someone random from a forum somewhere -- I meant more like if you had family or a very close friend in the U.S. who you'd trust with your kids ... or your boards.

[__red__]

Another option is DuTch auction.

That's better for you as a seller as you stand a better chance of getting a fair price.

It's better for me as a buyer as it provides me with expectation of value.

[berserkfan]

Scarpia, sorry, Scalia has been in the news too much.

Murium, you're right of course, but it still isn't good to use a proxy. The logistics aren't that easy. Any screwups, I'm still going to be responsible in the end. EG XMIT offered, but what if he falls sick, or stuff is damaged while at his place, etc? I'll still get paypal complaints filed on me.
In any case shipping 50kg isn't going to be better value than shipping 5kg. Singapore post offers a very good sweet spot in the 5kg box which can ship 2 keyboards, and I intend to use it. If it makes the cheapskates here any happier, I am planning to give stuff to genuine buyers and let it piggyback in the same box.

_red_, Dutch auction is a great idea and absolutely my preferred as well. If not for the fact that it is banned on geekhack.

Everyone knows that the way to circumvent the auction ban on geekhack, is that people just put out a high price, and let buyers quietly contact them via PM. The mods have a tacit acceptance. But openly conducting an auction, is going too far. It’s ok to bend the rules, but to flout them invites trouble.

So I’ll have to stick with the PM thing…

Really don’t understand how I ended up with so many keyboards.

[berserkfan]

btw Scarpia, since I am talking to an Italian now, do you mind telling us whether The Name Of The Rose is comprehensible when read in Italian?

[Redmaus]

I can vouch for XMIT, I know him personally and is a responsible person. Very helpful, kind, etc.

I cannot see any scenario in which you get screwed over using XMIT as a proxy.

[kekstee]

I'm not really interested in buying anything currently, but I still curiously skimmed your price check thread.
There is quite some interesting stuff in there, but no way to actually value condition and the cleanness of mods.

Those blue mods had lots of experiementation going, we should at least know what was actually used as a spacer and what colour/keycap variant the boards are before deciding what it could be worth to us. Also I don't think the modded blues ever really took off like Ergo Clears did, so a good used price in relation to regular list price might be all you can get if people actually saw what they were getting.

It seems like you put a lot of love in collecting and modding stuff, but it just does not show with that sales check. People will bid accordingly.

Number the items and take a picture of everything, take an example picture of the more elaborate mods (bolt, blues...). It will get more attention and maybe someone who is getting his first or second keyboard is just the person you are looking for as long as you set some frame of regular used or retail prices. Restored IBMs can go for quite a bit and it's a lot of work. I did not rust paint and bolt mod my M yet.

Just consider the time you spent on the boards and consider creating a catalogue for the sale as something to just calmly work away on. If that helps. Good luck.

[XMIT]

I can vouch for XMIT, I know him personally and is a responsible person. Very helpful, kind, etc.

I cannot see any scenario in which you get screwed over using XMIT as a proxy.

I didn't see this before. Thanks for the kind words.

If you want to try to work something out send me a PM with what you have in mind. I'm reliable but a little slow at times since I'm often stretched pretty thin.