SA Dasher & SA Dancer keycap sets (Completed)

Muirium · 25 Jan 2016, 06:02

Khers wrote: Please stop publishing these renders! They look too good! If you continue I'll end up with even more caps I don't need...

The trick is to keep reminding yourself they're only ABS. Only ABS. Only ABS… yeah, it takes discipline when they look like these!

zslane wrote: Pok3r style:

Khers wrote: Amazingly good looking.

Agreed. The lighting in that Poker shot is DT header worthy! Nice job, Zslane.

niomosy · 25 Jan 2016, 08:02

zslane wrote: I sent an e-mail today to Melissa requesting a price quote for what we have so far, at three quantity tiers: 25, 50, and 100. If I can get that information, I can go to GeekHack and reddit and start waving the flag in those places. Stay tuned!

Awesome news. Those latest renders will certainly be awesome for the IC threads, especially that Poker render given the popularity lately of 60% boards.

zslane · 25 Jan 2016, 20:02

Right now there is a keyset project running through the IC phase on GeekHack that I don't want to compete with for attention. It is called Flatline and it exists primarily to spite MiTo. It currently has the white hot spotlight of enthusiasm from GHers right now thanks to a very contentious thread in the Signature Plastics sub-forum in which MiTo tried to fight with everyone.

I'm probably going to wait for the dust to settle over there; I feel that SA Dasher will just get lost in all the noise right now.

7bit · 25 Jan 2016, 20:09

Dasher looks better and is a new color scheme.

zslane · 25 Jan 2016, 20:19

I agree!

But I don't think anyone over there would notice right now.

(BTW, Flatline has pretty renders too...3D mockups are now the norm it would seem.)

Muirium · 25 Jan 2016, 20:34

Ah, drama. I wonder, is GH really full of clueless teens or is it just where older guys go to act like them?

7bit · 25 Jan 2016, 20:35

Yes, but I still have the advantage* of 2D-renders showing the text or symbol on the key as it will be produced.** ***

---------------------
*) Thanks to your sample SVG file
**) If SP does not mess them up
***) if it is a new legend

niomosy · 25 Jan 2016, 20:47

Muirium wrote: Ah, drama. I wonder, is GH really full of clueless teens or is it just where older guys go to act like them?

What about us 40-somethings that don't (normally) act like teens?

sero · 25 Jan 2016, 21:33

I don't recommend putting this on hold. It is not just flatline coming out, but several other SA sets including 3 Round 2s (Jukebox, Pulse, 1976). And there are more SA ICs coming out everyday. If the ball doesn't get rolling soon on this, it certainly won't come out in 2016 and maybe not even early 2017. With a delay like that, I would say this GB is in danger of "flatlining." Then we would have yet another Dasher IC that died here on DT. I would say continue as you were planning to yesterday because it will only get harder, not easier.

Bbrotha · 25 Jan 2016, 21:40

+1 Go for it, it's a new and original keyset with great colors. I'll be all over it anyday. Also, please include an ergodox child set

zslane · 25 Jan 2016, 21:56

Okay, if you think that's the best play. I don't know how long it will take Melissa to get back to me with the quote anyway, and maybe by then some of the sound and fury will have died down.

Just to be clear, I wasn't going to wait until the Flatline IC was "done"; I was merely hoping to wait for the current bonfire to fade into glowing embers. It is one thing for a keyset to be getting a lot of attention on its merits as an exciting new keyset. It is another thing for it to be garnering attention simply because another designer's attitude has everyone whipped up into a frenzy. The circumstances surrounding Flatline are anomalous, and I figure the furor will pass fairly soon, making a slight pause for sanity to return there a potentially smart move.

But if there is no wisdom in that, then I'll post the IC as soon as I have the information from Melissa.

sero · 25 Jan 2016, 23:33

I see, I thought you were thinking of putting it on hold for months. A couple weeks is probably fine. The whole thing with the pulse/flatline sets started last week and the flatline renders were posted Saturday, so I'm sure by next week or the week after the flames will have died down a bit as you said.

Elrick · 26 Jan 2016, 02:03

sero wrote: I see, I thought you were thinking of putting it on hold for months. A couple weeks is probably fine. The whole thing with the pulse/flatline sets started last week and the flatline renders were posted Saturday, so I'm sure by next week or the week after the flames will have died down a bit as you said.

Zslane's set has been here on DT for some time and the ones that truly want it, shall jump in as soon as it's available.

niomosy · 26 Jan 2016, 02:27

Elrick wrote:
sero wrote: I see, I thought you were thinking of putting it on hold for months. A couple weeks is probably fine. The whole thing with the pulse/flatline sets started last week and the flatline renders were posted Saturday, so I'm sure by next week or the week after the flames will have died down a bit as you said.
Zslane's set has been here on DT for some time and the ones that truly want it, shall jump in as soon as it's available.

Indeed. I'll be keeping money set aside for this one until its ready.

sero · 26 Jan 2016, 02:43

Elrick wrote:
sero wrote: I see, I thought you were thinking of putting it on hold for months. A couple weeks is probably fine. The whole thing with the pulse/flatline sets started last week and the flatline renders were posted Saturday, so I'm sure by next week or the week after the flames will have died down a bit as you said.
Zslane's set has been here on DT for some time and the ones that truly want it, shall jump in as soon as it's available.

True, but from what I understand, we will need more than that to make this happen. My concern was that if this is not available to order for another several months, many other SA sets will have already come up for order in that time. So people we may need onboard will have already made their decisions and ordered other SA sets. However, if it is made available around the same time or before the others then this set would be included in their decision making process. I think if peoples' wallets are not yet empty and they see the renders for this set, they will choose it over others.

There is also the issue of the SP SA production backlog. With so many SA sets being announced and put into IC, I think that in several months, the wait will be longer than it is now. That is probably not an issue for the people following this set already, but it may be for others.

This is going to be a year of tons of great SA sets, and tough decisions for many on deciding which ones they want to buy.

niomosy · 26 Jan 2016, 07:15

This is where the benefit of a place like MassDrop helps. It increases the potential number of buyers whereas Flatline is looking to be a GH-run set. There's still sets in the works beyond that but I think it creates a reasonable window for Dasher.

dkraan · 26 Jan 2016, 11:25

First time poster poster here. I think this set looks great and I'm looking forward to ordering it.

Just putting my two cents in since this is still an IC thread and OP sounds unsure about the competition.

zslane · 26 Jan 2016, 23:46

The Flatline IC just lost all its momentum as an SA set, and is now fishing around for an alternative profile and an alternative manufacturer. That pretty much clears the way for Dasher to make its splash over at GH.

In other news: I have SP's price quote, but I don't know how to adjust it for MassDrop's volume discount or their markup.

niomosy · 26 Jan 2016, 23:58

zslane wrote: The Flatline IC just lost all its momentum as an SA set, and is now fishing around for an alternative profile and an alternative manufacturer. That pretty much clears the way for Dasher to make its splash over at GH.

In other news: I have SP's price quote, but I don't know how to adjust it for MassDrop's volume discount or their markup.

Well, that's good news for Dasher, at least. You might check with thesiscamper on how things went with Troubled Minds. I believe he got pricing from SP and gave that to MD but not positive of all the details on that.

I was concerned about Flatline trying to be an oldschool community group-buy. SP seems to have confirmed their preferences. I can't say I blame them in all honesty. They're a business mostly selling to businesses and wanting to continue selling to businesses. They don't seem to grasp the business-to-consumer community as well

zslane · 27 Jan 2016, 00:35

Thesiscamper responded by saying he had no input on pricing with MassDrop, which suggests he left all those details to MD. I reached out to livingspeedbump to see if he had any insight (he was behind Danger Zone, I believe).

zslane · 27 Jan 2016, 00:41

I also hope that interest in Dasher & Dancer won't be unduly denuded by everyone on GH feeling all butt hurt right now over Flatline's pricing and the feeling that SP is screwing them over and failing to show the proper degree of gratitude for single-handedly building SP's custom spherical keycap business.

niomosy · 27 Jan 2016, 00:42

zslane wrote: Thesiscamper responded by saying he had no input on pricing with MassDrop, which suggests he left all those details to MD. I reached out to livingspeedbump to see if he had any insight (he was behind Danger Zone, I believe).

Cool, more info is always good. I suspected that the pricing info was just passed over to MD but wasn't positive on that and didn't want to assume.

At least looking at the thread, livingspeedbump also did Jukebox.

niomosy · 27 Jan 2016, 00:51

zslane wrote: I also hope that interest in Dasher & Dancer won't be unduly denuded by everyone on GH feeling all butt hurt right now over Flatline's pricing and the feeling that SP is screwing them over and failing to show the proper degree of gratitude for single-handedly building SP's custom spherical keycap business.

That may partly depend on pricing. While there are a lot of emotional reactions to this, the gist of the matter is that discounted pricing will still be available to us via sites like MD. Personally, I'm fine with this as I'm not really a tremendous fan of community-run buys. I know that others are more heavily community driven.

One nice thing about MD is that it brings in a lot of people that know nothing about GH and aren't in the GH/DT/rMK communities. They're simply MD users that want some nice caps for their keyboards. Hopefully that can offset the current negativity the GH crowd is feeling toward SP right now.

I like GH for the most part, but it almost seems as though they will decrease as the critical element in keyset purchases over time.

romevi · 27 Jan 2016, 01:08

zslane wrote:Thesiscamper responded by saying he had no input on pricing with MassDrop, which suggests he left all those details to MD. I reached out to livingspeedbump to see if he had any insight (he was behind Danger Zone, I believe).

Pretty sure Danger Zone was by someone else (Data?). lsb did Jukebox.

zslane · 27 Jan 2016, 01:11

You may be right about that. I feel like Dasher/Dancer is coming along at a time when the choice between trying to appeal to the GH community, and ignoring them (and going straight to a MassDrop vote, for instance) isn't an obvious one. The Flatline thread leaves one with the impression that GHers are mostly into cylindrical profiles anyway, and so maybe getting their seal of approval on a new SA set isn't as important as it once was. I just don't know.

zslane · 27 Jan 2016, 01:11

romevi wrote:
zslane wrote:Thesiscamper responded by saying he had no input on pricing with MassDrop, which suggests he left all those details to MD. I reached out to livingspeedbump to see if he had any insight (he was behind Danger Zone, I believe).
Pretty sure Danger Zone was by someone else (Data?). lsb did Jukebox.

Ah, yeah that sounds right. Thanks romevi. I can't keep 'em all straight. My bad.

niomosy · 27 Jan 2016, 02:08

zslane wrote: You may be right about that. I feel like Dasher/Dancer is coming along at a time when the choice between trying to appeal to the GH community, and ignoring them (and going straight to a MassDrop vote, for instance) isn't an obvious one. The Flatline thread leaves one with the impression that GHers are mostly into cylindrical profiles anyway, and so maybe getting their seal of approval on a new SA set isn't as important as it once was. I just don't know.

I think GH is still an important segment of the customer base for sets. I see them becoming an increasingly smaller portion of that customer base as time goes on, though. A growing number of potential buyers seem to be either not be involved in the keyboard forum communities or are part of one such as /r/MK instead.

GH still seems to have a large interest in SA sets; most of the sets being proposed in the IC forum are SA profile. I think maybe they just need to let off some steam. There seems to be a number of emotionally focused users there.

niomosy · 27 Jan 2016, 02:23

Wow.

They're getting a bit more testy over there. Sigh.

zslane · 27 Jan 2016, 02:39

They want to feel like founding fathers of the custom keycap business, and don't like learning that they are, after all, just customers of a manufacturing service that has much larger clients that they structure their business around. They are shooting the messenger, which is me in this case. I am probably not doing myself (and Dasher's potential acceptance) any favors by electing to be the one delivering that message.

niomosy · 27 Jan 2016, 03:10

I've been called a Wikipedia lawyer a couple times for attempting to bring legal facts straight from the US copyright office in to the discussion. Then there was the time we were called entitled for being proponents of colorway reruns for those that missed out.

I admit I'm baffled by their reaction. A business acts like a business and people get shocked. The community has helped SP fix things the community wanted fixed.