At the End of the Day, Which Keyboard do You Actually Use?

[Hypersphere]

For those who like Cherry mx switches, the KC60 is rather good out of the box (if you count setting up a custom layout -- the board is completely programmable).

kc60.jpg (91.24 KiB) Viewed 6014 times

https://www.keychatter.com/2015/07/01/review-kc60-3/

It has rather nice dye-sub PBT keycaps -- overlooking the "Backspase" error on some batches, which could make this a collector's item There is also an issue with the Q-row -- the keycaps hit the LEDs, making this row feel mushy compared to the other rows.

These quibbles aside, within this type of keyboard, I prefer it to the Poker II and Pok3r. Once you figure out the rather user-unfriendly programming, it works beautifully. I have mine set up with a HHKB layout plus some extras for media keys and LED controls. Because of its complete programmability, I prefer the KC60 over the V60 with mx switches, but it would be a close call with the V60MTS models because I like Matias switches.

[richfiles]

At the end of the day...what do I use?

...

A Logitech DiNovo Edge...

No, seriously... It's the only keyboard i have left that hasn't crapped out on me, and I haven't gotten my Danger Zone keycaps yet (it'll be a little over a month before that happens). It'll be a week or two before my Teensy 2.0 arrives. I also still need to make the frame of my keyboard. Fortunately, the plate is already filly assembled and wired, minus the direct wiring to the teensy. The diodes and matrix is all in place...

... Freakin' rubber domes... Can't wait to never look back...

It's worth noting that one of my favorite boards is a 60%... with arrow keys. (If you ignore the reset key and 80/40 column and QWERTY/Dvorak (or outside of the US, US/International) lock switches, anyway.) The Apple //c Memory Expansion keyboard's got a quite nice layout. (Really, ignoring the reset and other keys, the //e and original //c are the same layout, too.)

AppleIIcKeyboard-1.jpg (502.38 KiB) Viewed 5974 times

I'm actually planning on converting one of these to a bluetooth keyboard in the (hopefully) near future! I wanna get my Danger Zone keyboard finished first, as the one in the image is already bluetooth, and will do till I replace it. I LOVE the Alps Ambers! Best feeling switch I've ever felt! What I'll end up doing with mine, is use one of the toggle buttons as a power switch, and the other to toggle the number row between numbers and function keys. I'll steal a few extra keys from another Apple keyboard and change the reset key to [Esc], and get three modifiers at the bottom, with [~`] at the top corner of the main key cluster, next to [1].

[davkol]

derp

[mashby]

@SL89 -- I'll have to compare them, but I don't think it's that different. Here's a shot of the orange alphas with a close up of the modifiers that might be a better picture. I'm currently traveling, but I'll compare the colors sometime next week.

@Hypershere -- I used a mixture Krytox 205 grease and Krytox 103 oil. The initial re-build log can be found here. And thanks for the kind words welcoming me back.

[mr_a500]

"At the end of the day", I use the same keyboard that I use at the beginning of the day - my IBM 3278:

[Hypersphere]

@Mashby: Thanks for that superb build log!

@mr_a500: Glorious!

[__red__]

"At the end of the day", I use the same keyboard that I use at the beginning of the day - my IBM 3278:

I think you just posted a photo of my new love... now, where would I find such a beastie...

[Abstractions]

"At the end of the day", I use the same keyboard that I use at the beginning of the day - my IBM 3278:

Those APL keycaps ?!

[Pesky_Human]

Here's my current setup…

IMG_0972.JPG

Not quite what I have at home, but wherever there's an HHKB, I'm good!

That's the business right there.

I am really new to this. Does the HHKB sit on top of the Macbook keyboard without disturbing built in keys? If so, this would be an ideal set up for me.

Happy new year!

[seebart]

At the moment this RF 86U. Topre is one of the very few switches that tends to "grow" on me, as I use it I like it more.

IMG_20160102_000835.jpg (938.26 KiB) Viewed 5811 times

[scottc]

Is that the one that you posted in the Great Finds thread, seebart? It was gone as soon as I asked for a proxy, or else I'd have it!

[seebart]

Is that the one that you posted in the Great Finds thread, seebart? It was gone as soon as I asked for a proxy, or else I'd have it!

No but this one was from the same seller. Someone else got the one I posted for 100 Euro! I paid "slightly" more for this one but it's boxed with an invoice. I still got a pretty good deal. Seems this one has not seen much action. This is the first RF I seem to have had luck with, I guess it's a keeper.

[scottc]

Very nice indeed! I'd say that it was worth paying "slightly" more for a boxed one, as long as it wasn't "slightly" too much. It's just the Realforce I was after. Topre took me a while to grow on me after using mostly IBM buckling springs and MX blacks. To begin with, I didn't really understand the fuss: it just felt like a nice rubber dome to me, sort of "muffled" feeling, unlike the crisper switches that I was more used to. It worked out for me in the end though, as my HHKB is one of my main keyboards these days. Enjoy your feeling of oneness with cup rubber!

[seebart]

"Slighty" more being around 150 total. The 86U is an older RF mind, but the switch is obviously the same with a few less extras on the board compared to the 87U. Yeah, the Topre switch is strange in a good way. I used to joke about it also, but it's a damn fine experience. Blows me away every time I come back to it after a longer pause. I never could get warm with the HHKB though.

[Mr.Bean]

Ergodox and HHKB for me, huge thanks to hasu for TMK and his alternative HHKB controller.

I am really new to this. Does the HHKB sit on top of the Macbook keyboard without disturbing built in keys? If so, this would be an ideal set up for me.

No problem with my 15 inches MB.

[bocahgundul]

"Slighty" more being around 150 total. The 86U is an older RF mind, but the switch is obviously the same with a few less extras on the board compared to the 87U. Yeah, the Topre switch is strange in a good way. I used to joke about it also, but it's a damn fine experience. Blows me away every time I come back to it after a longer pause. I never could get warm with the HHKB though.

seebart the 86u is it ergo weighting?

[seebart]

No it is variable force. Here is our list:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_Realforce

Unbenannt.JPG (59.63 KiB) Viewed 5806 times

[bocahgundul]

No it is variable force. Here is our list:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_Realforce

Unbenannt.JPG

ergo weighting is the same like variable force bro .

[seebart]

Got any other names for it? I guess we cleared that up.

[Hypersphere]

At the moment this RF 86U. Topre is one of the very few switches that tends to "grow" on me, as I use it I like it more.

Spoiler:

IMG_20160102_000835.jpg

Yes, I also. I like all my Topre-switch boards. The HHKB Pro 2 still wins overall for its combination of Lauout, 60% form factor, Design/Style, Keycaps, and Topre switches. However, I have been using my silenced RF87UB55 steadily for the past few weeks. I like its solidity and refinement along with the heavier weight of its switches. From time to time I bring my Novatouch into the mix for the novelty of typing on Cherry mx keycaps with Topre underneath.

[courtesi]

I'm completely divorced of all non-Buckling Spring keyboards. I don't have the patience for failing (chattering) switches / switches that feel different over time / failing detachable cables / dying LED's / etc...

My keyboard of choice is the IBM M2 1395300; this is my sole keyboard used at home.

Some consider this as the most poorly made Model M - yet I turn back to it time and time again for typing satisfaction, compact size, and unique feel due to lack of metal back plate. Yes, the capacitors leak - but once fixed it's no longer an issue.

If I need something quiet I'll stick with my IBM KB-7953.

[Redmaus]

courtesi have you had the pleasure of using a model F?

[hammelgammler]

I use my SSK. Love the feeling, and I'm very excited how the FSSK will be (if it works). I have a few Model F's here, so I know how nice the feeling is. That feeling with a SSK should be endgame for me!

[courtesi]

courtesi have you had the pleasure of using a model F?

My only (brief) experience was at a vintage computer show a few years back.

It was an XT model connected to a PC Jr. To be honest, I wasn't blown away by it. The key spacing felt slightly off and the noise was not at all pleasant. Going off of memory it felt like the keyspacing felt farther than usual; This did not feel comfortable to me.

I also owned a Packard Bell White Alps board and it too had this phenomenon. I felt like I had to stretch my fingers farther to type.

Meanwhile, I have typed on many Model M2's/M's - and never had this experience.

I know everyone puts the 'F' up on a sacred altar - but in the context of the XT I tried - it didn't work out for me.

[Muirium]

Which is why the XT isn't widely praised. It's a late 70s terminal keyboard adapted for 1981 PC use by IBM in a hurry. The real Model F begins with the AT, and reaches its apex with the 4704 Kishsaver. Brilliant boards.

However, they all have epic feel.

I actually quite like the M2, like you. But I'd never choose one over a regular M like my SSKs. The feel isn't there. Compared to MX and the like, the M2 is a fine board. But it's IBM. So it is judged against its relatives instead, which is a much harder comparison!

[hammelgammler]

Well regarding the feeling, I like the XT more then the AT, only the layout is not the best one.

[Muirium]

Entirely subjective — of course — but here's my rating of various IBM feels:

Kishsaver: 10
XT: 9
AT: 8
Silver Label Model M in good condition: 6
Regular Model M in heavily used condition: 4
M2: 3

The XT/AT thing is real, but both of them are leagues ahead of the whole M branch of the family. And the metal Kishies rule them all!

This is subjective, remember. I don't even know how to rate other switch types on this scale. Beamspring would we what: 15? MX black somewhere down at 1 or so, depending on scratchiness. Ach! But you get the idea.

[Parjánya]

Well, most things about keyboards are subjective, aren't they? Rubberdomes do get the job done, after all...

It would be nice to fill out this list with other switch types, perhaps with a scale up to just 10, to have the whole picture. But if you are rating keyboards and not just switches, this might be a really long list...

[Hypersphere]

@Mu: Your ratings appear to agree with mine, although I have not yet used my Kishsaver enough to make a good comparison. However, if the switches feel at least as good as those in my XT, the 60% form factor and layout of the Kishy ought to get an overall ratio of 10.

I might demote the AT a bit more. I really like the sound and feel of my XT (although I do not like the layout), but I have been disappointed with the sound and feel of my AT. On my long list of projects to do is the refurbishing and layout modifications for my AT, but after I do similar things to my XT, I anticipate that the XT will get a higher rating.

Although my favorite form factor is 60% and my favorite layout is HHKB, otherwise I tend to use TKL boards. I generally don't like anything in between. Of course, one of my favorite TKLs is the IBM SSK. I hope that the FSSK project works out, because an SSK with Model F switches ought to be a real winner.

At the moment, I am typing on my silenced HHKB Pro 2 ....

[Muirium]

What I wonder is the cause and effect. People tend to gravitate either towards Model F, or Topre, or to some particular corner of the Cherry world. Is this because these are the best keyboards, or is it because we influence one another's taste? I think there's a good bit of both at work.

The best evidence for the latter, I think, is the way certain things (like vintage Cherry dyesubs and industrial SSKs) attain crazy values and dominate some people's collections. If those things weren't rare, would they be as sought after? I reckon there's a strong community effect in the demand for them.

But some things lean towards the other direction. I don't prefer TKL and 60% because anyone told me to. Indeed, it would be easier if I was into fullsize boards, because I've many great ones that I don't use nearly as much as I should. Like you, and yes many people on DT, I find the smaller layouts better in actual use. And all these MX caps of mine have to wait in line for their turn on my NovaTouch instead of the MX boards I also have but scarcely use.