Apple Extended Keyboard (Alps SKCM Salmon)

[mr_a500]

Also, ADB was better than PS/2. Remember those pale green and lilac ports to separate the keyboard and mouse? Dumb, IBM, and there was even an extra pin you guys could have used in the connector! As much as I prefer vintage IBM boards over Apple's or anyone else's, they had their drawbacks.

I like ADB better because you can plug the mouse into the keyboard. You can't do that with PS/2. The teal green and purple ports always annoyed me. Not only do I hate the colours (annoyingly trendy at the time), but I still - to this day - don't remember which is for which. (For me, the word "keyboard" is light blue and "mouse" is red. If they had used those colours, I probably would have remembered. Synaesthesia can hinder as well as help.)

But Command was genius and remains to this day. Thumbs, man! That's where to put your primary meta key.

Bah. The 1985 Amiga keyboard layout was far superior. Compare:

Original 1984 Mac


Original 1985 Amiga

[Muirium]

I smiled when I scrolled down on the little phone and saw there was no explanation! Aw. Come on. What's better about it? ISO return? All that guff on the right in the way of the red rodent? Remember I'm an HHKB fan and love 60%s, so absence of arrow keys is a plus in my book.

Anyway, was the A key you guys' version of Command? When you wanted to open a file (etc. etc. etc.) was that the one you held to make the shortcut? Hope so. It's in the right place too.

[tactica]

I smiled when I scrolled down on the little phone and saw there was no explanation! Aw. Come on. What's better about it? ISO return? All that guff on the right in the way of the red rodent? Remember I'm an HHKB fan and love 60%s, so absence of arrow keys is a plus in my book.

For starters, in case you missed it Amiga keyboards came with a real "Help" key, so you didn't have to deal with whatever key someone thought was obviously the one to use whenever you needed help.

Secondly, the arrow keys allowed you to emulate the mouse without extra software. As long as the computer could be switched on, Right Amiga+arrow would move the mouse pointer, while Right Amiga+Shift+Arrow would move it faster. The longer you held the keys down, the faster it would move. Left Amiga+Alt=Left mouse button, Right Amiga+Alt=Right mouse button. Or the other way around, I'm not sure right now...

Anyway, was the A key you guys' version of Command? When you wanted to open a file (etc. etc. etc.) was that the one you held to make the shortcut? Hope so. It's in the right place too.

The Right Amiga key was the one for shortcuts, yes, whereas Left Amiga was used for "special" features such as LAmiga-N or LAmiga-M to switch to the next or previous screen. It was fun having proper, real time multitasking in 1985 with under 512kB of RAM

[Spikebolt]

Command is so essential on the Mac its placement by the spacebar is ideal. Thumbs press Command, fingers press the appropriate alpha for the function. So much better than stretching out to Control.

Best placement would be caps lock!

[Muirium]

I do that with my HHKB for Control, but I'm glad (the far more frequently used on Mac) Command is down by the spacebar on that little keyboard too. Much easier to thumb a mod than stretch over to the left. It was my little introduction to the underused power of thumbs…

The AEK has a Help key, Tactica. Right where Insert would be on a Model M. Bloody useless though! Macs did contextual help via the mouse and never really used that key. I think Apple ditched it entirely for Fn on the desktop boards some years ago, and it's surely not on the laptops.

[seebart]

I owned that Amiga 1000 keyboard originally. The best of all worlds. TKL sized and numblock and arrow keys. Near perfect. Still haven't found one for my collection.

[kbdfr]

Command is so essential on the Mac its placement by the spacebar is ideal. Thumbs press Command, fingers press the appropriate alpha for the function. So much better than stretching out to Control.

Best placement would be caps lock!

Always funny to see people wanting to eliminate CapsLock from keyboard design because they don’t use it themselves.
It’s like people who never drive by night saying car lights are useless

[andrewjoy]

Always funny to see people wanting to eliminate CapsLock from keyboard design because they don’t use it themselves.
It’s like people who never drive by night saying car lights are useless

its not that we want to eliminate caps lock , its just in the wrong place it would be like the gear stick in your car being switched with the nob that turns the lights on.

[Spikebolt]

Command is so essential on the Mac its placement by the spacebar is ideal. Thumbs press Command, fingers press the appropriate alpha for the function. So much better than stretching out to Control.

Best placement would be caps lock!

Always funny to see people wanting to eliminate CapsLock from keyboard design because they don’t use it themselves.
It’s like people who never drive by night saying car lights are useless

It's more like a numpad, some people use it a lot, other people don't use it at all.

I don't use caps lock enough to justify him being in such a good location. I always remap it

[andrewjoy]

Number pad is good but if its going to be there it needs to have extra keys like tab and space that way you can use it as a little Data entry pad rather than a number pad, a few programable F keys above it are handy too

[Chyros]

Heheheh, unsurprisingly, the keyboard that brings the most discussion is an Apple one xD . Could've seen that one coming :p .

Synaesthesia can hinder as well as help.

Oh wow, do you actually have synaesthesia then? I've always wondered what that must be like =o .

[Muirium]

I bet it's grapefruity.


@Kbdfr: Even the HHKB still has caps lock. It's just tucked away on Fn+Tab. My favourite, though, by far, is the delightful Shift+Shift. That makes so much sense it's better than having a separate caps lock key at all!

But yeah, numpads I nuke entirely. Nice to have embedded but I don't miss 'em much when they're not. If I did bash numbers for a living, I'd get a separate Realforce numpad so I could put it on the left and still mouse. (Then swap sides frequently as I like to do anyway.)

[mr_a500]

I smiled when I scrolled down on the little phone and saw there was no explanation! Aw. Come on. What's better about it? ISO return? All that guff on the right in the way of the red rodent? Remember I'm an HHKB fan and love 60%s, so absence of arrow keys is a plus in my book.

I didn't explain because I thought it was obvious. OK then...

1. The Amiga layout has an actual escape key. I can imagine Steve Jobs saying, "The user doesn't need a fucking escape. We'll tell him when he can leave."

2. The aforementioned Help key. It doesn't matter if it actually helps. Just the fact that it's there meant that somebody was trying to be helpful.

3. Arrow keys. What kind of weirdo would want a keyboard without arrow keys?

4. The aforementioned Amiga keys. They do for Amiga what Command does for Apple AND they can move the pointer anywhere, right-click, left-click and double-click.

5. Ctrl where it should be - to the left of A.

6. Small Caps Lock with LED. Who needs a huge honking Caps Lock like on the Apple?

7 Function keys. Sometimes, you do need function keys. Remember, you couldn't remap this Apple keyboard to add function keys, arrow keys and so forth, like you can on the HHKB.

I also consider the numeric keypad an advantage, but I know some weirdos like their keyboard without so I won't make a point of it. Also note that the Amiga keyboard was out before the Model M was available.

Oh wow, do you actually have synaesthesia then? I've always wondered what that must be like =o .

It's good for memorizing and spelling, but it can also cause problems. I can get confused when two names are the same colour.

[seebart]

Heheheh, unsurprisingly, the keyboard that brings the most discussion is an Apple one xD . Could've seen that one coming :p

It's really always me that initiates these discussions...and then leaves. (just kidding)

[mr_a500]

Yeah, and you edit your post a few times after that to cover your tracks.

[seebart]

Yeah, and you edit your post a few times after that to cover your tracks.

People call it "seebarting". I call it fun. But we got a similair taste in keyboards. That Amiga 1000 keyboard is great. I've been searching for one for over two years.

At least we were able to take Chyros thread somewhat off topic.

[mr_a500]

I've got one, but tragically it's the only keyboard I've ever ruined - simply by pulling off keycaps. Those switch cases are fragile!

So I need another one, but they always go for insane prices.

[seebart]

So I need another one, but they always go for insane prices.

Yes I've seen them go for around € 100 in good condition. Madness.

[Muirium]

Pft. Almost none of those 7 bullet points sways me. I'll take an IBM SSK* over an Amiga layout any day.

*with software swapped mods so Command is where Alt is, Option for Control, and Control for Caps Lock. So I agree with you in that dumb key, as I said re: Kbdfr's point. Caps Lock is ideal for a macro, freeing up its prized homerow adjacent cap. But I'd lose the function row if i could. Pointless duplication.

[mr_a500]

Pft. Almost none of those 7 bullet points sways me. I'll take an IBM SSK* over an Amiga layout any day.

Apparently, you misunderstand the point of my points. We were comparing original Mac with original Amiga. Now you start talking about SSK and software remapping. What the hell is going on here? (....mutters "damn Scots!" under breath...)

[Muirium]

This thread's about the AEK, mind. We're comparing multiple layouts. I brought up the M0110 because that's where Command and Option came from. The AEK rightly kept them in the same place on the Mac rather than copying the subsequently released Model M. When you throw in the Amiga, and we've four boards. Keep up!

[chzel]

He's losing and purposefully misdirects the conversation!!!
Damn Scots...
In my opinion, given the option to remap to your liking, a 60%-ish keyboard is plenty for basic everyday use.

[Muirium]

Losing? Impossible to lose, or win, when people have rival preferences. Who on earth is listening, ready to change their mind, besides us who have our favourites already? Each to their high horse of choice!

[mr_a500]

This thread's about the AEK, mind. We're comparing multiple layouts. I brought up the M0110 because that's where Command and Option came from. The AEK rightly kept them in the same place on the Mac rather than copying the subsequently released Model M. When you throw in the Amiga, and we've four boards. Keep up!

Oh so you were on topic while you were going off topic. My mistake was in assuming that when you went off topic that you were still off topic, when you were actually on. I went off, but remained off topic - on the off topic topic that was the current topic. You touched on that topic, but switched back on when I wasn't looking.

(...still muttering "damn Scots!"....)

[Muirium]

Ah, fine lawyering! You'd be a good Scot too, A500. There's more than just a little of our fondness for bickering and snide backhanded compliments in your nation's character as well. I wonder why! (Translation: of course I don't.)

[chzel]

Losing? Impossible to lose, or win, when people have rival preferences. Who on earth is listening, ready to change their mind, besides us who have our favourites already? Each to their high horse of choice!

You mean there aren't neophytes looking up to our opinions in hope to mould their preferences after our own?
I am disappointed, my world is crumbling...

[seebart]

Losing? Impossible to lose, or win, when people have rival preferences.

Very true. Apparently keyboard layouts are a delicate subject...which proves we're not GH.

There's more than just a little of our fondness for bickering and snide backhanded compliments in your nation's character as well.

I have noticed that. Less continental cool. More Highlander'ish brute force.

[Muirium]

@Chzel: Curious, impressionable, baggage free, tabula rasa, etc. layout seeking newbs could always exist, I guess. But I've never met one, and I didn't experience that stage myself. I found my own preferences by looking at and using different keyboards. If I'd listened to greybeards, I might be stuck on bloody Dvorak!

Any actual newbies: all this stuff is entirely personal preference. Explore! There is no objective, superior, universally perfect layout. But you'll find (or create) one that feels that way to you soon enough. You'll have plenty of time to sell your own tiresome opinions once you've formed them.