Apple Extended Keyboard (Alps SKCM Salmon)

[Chyros]

Finally got an AEK to complement my AEKII ^^ . This is the version with the Salmon Alps. Hope you enjoy the review!

[Redmaus]

As always, loved the review. You really have to keep doing this. Webwit should put a Chyros video corner on the homepage.

I would love to sell you my keyboards so you can do review on them

[Chyros]

As always, loved the review. You really have to keep doing this. Webwit should put a Chyros video corner on the homepage.

Haha cheers mate, glad you enjoyed it . I just hope I keep getting enough keyboards to do this every other week xD .

I would love to sell you my keyboards so you can do review on them

Cheers for the offer, but I promised myself the only keyboards I'd shell out for anymore would be a Focus FK-5001 or a FK-9000 xD .

[Redmaus]

Cheers for the offer, but I promised myself the only keyboards I'd shell out for anymore would be a Focus FK-5001 or a FK-9000 xD .

Well I have a focus FK-2001. 25$?

Also have a kensington numpad with vintage cherry clears that I got today.

[Chyros]

Cheers for the offer, but I promised myself the only keyboards I'd shell out for anymore would be a Focus FK-5001 or a FK-9000 xD .

Well I have a focus FK-2001. 25$?

I already have one . Only a 5001 or 9000 I'm afraid!

[mr_a500]

Nice video. You need a Griffin iMate... mate. Then you can do a proper review. I've seen them go for stupidly high prices, but there's a listing now for a fairly reasonable $28 US, new:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Griffin-iMate-AD ... 1767150503

I've got a bunch of M0115s and a M0116 (all orange ALPS), used both with USB and vintage Macs.

[Muirium]

You can also Teensy them up, which you can install internally so the board is native USB instead of requiring dongles.

[mr_a500]

Yes, of course. My mind was stuck back in the pre-Teensy days when people nearly killed each other to get an iMate. Those were the days...

[Muirium]

Love me some Teensies. And Xwhatsit's, and Phosphorglow's. The only external dongle I have is the (Teensy powered, three socket) Soarer box I built for myself when I started with vintage keyboards. Internal conversion is more elegant, if not as fully original. The best of both worlds may be those Teensy powered Soarer cables someone makes and sells on eBay? They're good and thin, so feel more like an extender cable than a dongle. I'd get one of those over an iMate *if they did ADB*. Which they do not. Doh!

[mr_a500]

I am unaware of this "Teensy powered Soarer cable" of which you speak. Does it just convert XT to AT, or does it convert anything else?

You like thin cables? I was specifically looking for a super-thick coiled USB cable - something with the same feel as an IBM XT cable. I couldn't find any though. Everything out there is thin and cheap.

[Muirium]

It's a Soarer's Converter, so the software can do PS/2, AT, XT and IBM terminal protocols. Here's the SDL version:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SDL-to-USB-SO ... 1816109375

I think there were other jacks, but I didn't look into it as I already have my Soarer box. Which does indeed get nice big coiled IBM cables plugged into it.

The "thin" part I said was compared to tumorous carbuncles / dongles in general. My Soarer box is a hefty metal slab I keep on my desk so it feels more like static infrastructure than a lump in a cable.

[mr_a500]

It's a Soarer's Converter, so the software can do PS/2, AT, XT and IBM terminal protocols. Here's the SDL version:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SDL-to-USB-SO ... 1816109375

Very nice. I wish there was something this spiffy for Micro Switch hall effect and vintage Key Tronic.

I know what you mean about dongles - like a snake that hasn't yet digested its meal. They snag on things, disconnect and so forth. One of the reasons I hate Apple (there are plenty other reasons) is that every damn new hardware release requires a bunch of new dongles to keep using your existing stuff. Damn you, Apple. (end of dongle hatred rant)

[Muirium]

To continue the discontinued rant: they're trying to go 100% wireless faster than it's really possible for us. I can definitely see the day when my laptop has no ports at all, and just charges via induction, like my Magic Mouse. Any wired peripherals must either hook up to a desktop (USB C ports aplenty on the next iMac plz!) or the wifi base station (ditto for a future Airport Extreme) or just go Bluetooth native like keyboards.

Nice enough idea, and we're almost there, but that "not quite" still makes all the difference for the present.

Anyway, Honeywell converters? Yes please! I also need an SGI, in addition to Orihalcon doing ADB…

[mr_a500]

One comment about the video... you say things like "Apple weirdness" and "proprietary connection and protocol", but you have to remember that this keyboard was released in 1987 when nearly every computer had its own layout, connector and protocol. Only the clones of IBM PC followed the PC protocol and layout (naturally) - but even clones had only been around for a few years. For Apple to make a keyboard so similar to the Model M layout in 1987 was odd and unexpected.

[mr_a500]

To continue the discontinued rant:

What are you doing continuing a discontinued rant? OK then...

they're trying to go 100% wireless faster than it's really possible for us. I can definitely see the day when my laptop has no ports at all, and just charges via induction, like my Magic Mouse. Any wired peripherals must either hook up to a desktop (USB C ports aplenty on the next iMac plz!) or the wifi base station (ditto for a future Airport Extreme) or just go Bluetooth native like keyboards.

Back when this was still science fiction, I thought it was a great idea. Now that we're living in the horrible future with user-hostile software and NSA/corporate spying, I like the ability to disconnect things by pulling a wire and knowing it's disconnected for sure. I don't want my software deciding for me when it connects or disconnects.

[Muirium]

Comments about the video? This is a DT thread: being on topic is actively discouraged!

[seebart]

Agreed mr__a500! I never fully "trust" wireless data connections. It becomes 1984ish when the "old" variants aren't available anymore and technology can be forced upon users. There is one sure safehaven left: offline ! Pull the plug.

[Chyros]

One comment about the video... you say things like "Apple weirdness" and "proprietary connection and protocol", but you have to remember that this keyboard was released in 1987 when nearly every computer had its own layout, connector and protocol. Only the clones of IBM PC followed the PC protocol and layout (naturally) - but even clones had only been around for a few years. For Apple to make a keyboard so similar to the Model M layout in 1987 was odd and unexpected.

Oh yes, I'm very aware that the keyboard is from an era in which everything is very different. For instance, although the Apple Key is swapped with the Alt key compared to the layout used with Windows keys, the Apple key predates the Windows key by over a decade. That said, they could still have put it in the recess which was there normally - which would've made much more sense to begin with. Moreover, a lot of the things they did simply don't make any sense to me. Why "option"? Why three deletes? Why have a Num Lock key, but no secondary numpad legends or functions? Why have the writing on the BOTTOM left rather than the top left of the key caps? Why the nubs on the D and K keys rather than F and J? Why the weird italic font, italics are shit to read? Why have a new connector completely incompatible with everything else everytime they bring out a new device? :p

[seebart]

being Apple I could imagine that the italic font was also a "design choice". Coming out with a new connector completely incompatible with everything else is typical Apple. It's the approach..."we can do it better than all the other guys".

[mr_a500]

Oh yes, I'm very aware that the keyboard is from an era in which everything is very different. For instance, although the Apple Key is swapped with the Alt key compared to the layout used with Windows keys, the Apple key predates the Windows key by over a decade. That said, they could still have put it in the recess which was there normally - which would've made much more sense to begin with. Moreover, a lot of the things they did simply don't make any sense to me. Why "option"? Why three deletes? Why have a Num Lock key, but no secondary numpad legends or functions? Why have the writing on the BOTTOM left rather than the top left of the key caps? Why the nubs on the D and K keys rather than F and J? Why the weird italic font, italics are shit to read? Why have a new connector completely incompatible with everything else everytime they bring out a new device? :p

Yeah, the nub positions are dumb and I don't like italics. I'm never a fan of Apple's constantly changing connectors, but that connector was all the rage at the time. First IBM & clones, then Apple, then NeXT, then Amiga (and others) - similar connector, but each incompatible with the other. I suspect that whatever connector IBM went with was most produced and therefore cheaper than other connectors so everybody followed. (...except whenever Apple pig-headedly went their own way, regardless of cost)

[Muirium]

Command went next to the spacebar before that gap even existed. When the original Mac came out in 1984, PC keyboards looked like this:



Command is so essential on the Mac its placement by the spacebar is ideal. Thumbs press Command, fingers press the appropriate alpha for the function. So much better than stretching out to Control.

The AEK was, like Mr A500 said, a step towards familiarity with the IBM clone world. But it was really a successor to the Mac's own layout, and so includes those elements. Num Lock was dumb (just there for PC aesthetics apparently) but the mods remain the same on Apple's hardware to this day.

[seebart]

PC keyboards looked like this:

if you posted a picture I can't see it!

[Muirium]

I Seebarted!

[seebart]

ahh I can see the XT now. Yeah that was a little seebarting. Reminds me I need to get my XT back out.

[Muirium]

They're a great board. But a barking layout! Much nicer to type on than the AEK, but more frustrating too.

[Redmaus]

While we are talking about adb, does anybody know how I could convert this guy to USB? It has an adb connector.

Ergo.jpg (176.6 KiB) Viewed 7010 times

[Chyros]

Command went next to the spacebar before that gap even existed. When the original Mac came out in 1984, PC keyboards looked like this:

I never said the XT layout WASN'T weird :p . In fact, in my 725 review, I say just that. Don't forget I didn't publish this review in 1984 :p .

Furthermore the AEK isn't from 1984, nor was it the keyboard from the original Mac. Two years before the AEK even came out, IBM already pushed out the Model M, which became the industry standard. Furthermore, the keyboard that DID come with the original Mac didn't even really HAVE a layout! :p

I know that there's multiple sides to this story and everything but I really feel the term "Apple weirdness" is more than justified with this keyboard. In my opinion, there are a lot of things on this keyboard that are different from what is currently the standard on keyboards - even Apple ones. Furthermore, most of these differences don't really appear to have a real justification other than "because we could".

[mr_a500]

While we are talking about adb, does anybody know how I could convert this guy to USB? It has an adb connector.

I've got a few of those. You can connect them the same way as with an ADB keyboard - Griffin iMate or Teensy.

[seebart]

Apple often made weird choices in their production. More so than any other company. Fans would argue that's part of the apple success story.

[Muirium]

I agree the D and K nubs are oddballs. (Did anyone else deviate from F and J?) Num Lock = dumb, as always on any fullsize keyboard. But Command was genius and remains to this day. Thumbs, man! That's where to put your primary meta key.

Also, ADB was better than PS/2. Remember those pale green and lilac ports to separate the keyboard and mouse? Dumb, IBM, and there was even an extra pin you guys could have used in the connector! As much as I prefer vintage IBM boards over Apple's or anyone else's, they had their drawbacks.

Of course, USB obsoleted both of them. But ADB and PS/2 both had a good long time as standards. Much better than the chaos before. From IBM and Apple alike.