Scottish Independence

[Muirium]

With that line of reasoning, Germany should have kept the nazi, because of tourism. Not with real power, but it would seriously increase the number of visitors to destruction camps if they would parade around.

Yeah, something like that…

You'd like to line yours up against the wall too, I presume?

[vivalarevolución]

Fuck monarchies. It's medieval crap. It's 2014.

The entertainment value of a symbolic monarchy is priceless. How dare you.

[7bit]

With that line of reasoning, Germany should have kept the nazi, because of tourism. Not with real power, but it would seriously increase the number of visitors to destruction camps if they would parade around.

Nonsense!

All it requires is a gay, wannbe absolutistic monarch, who lets his people build dream castles for him and future tourists, should he drown one day ...

[Muirium]

I'd like to have a female-only monarchy. Then we could be the Femdom of Scotland! It'd give all that sharp metal medieval paraphernalia a new meaning, for sure…

[webwit]

We have one of the most corrupted monarchies. Fist deep with a huge share in Shell (one of the most powerful and evil companies in the world, deep into goverments where even prime ministers are "ex"-Shell men) and Bilderberg. They founded that shit. Bilderberg was founded by the Queens husband, who was later caught for severe corruption, and, hold it, having served for the SS. Do you want me to tell you more? Ken Saro-Wiwa would deserve a mention. Or check out the family of the current king's Argentinian wife, who liked to throw people out of airplanes.

[vivalarevolución]

We have one of the most corrupted monarchies. Fist deep with a huge share in Shell (one of the most powerful and evil companies in the world, deep into goverments where even prime ministers are "ex"-Shell men) and Bilderberg. They founded that shit. Bilderberg was founded by the Queens husband, who was later caught for severe corruption, and, hold it, having served for the SS. Do you want me to tell you more? Ken Saro-Wiwa would deserve a mention. Or check out the family of the current king's Argentinian wife, who liked to throw people out of airplanes.

Exactly what I was saying. Priceless entertainment!

[sth]

We have one of the most corrupted monarchies. Fist deep with a huge share in Shell (one of the most powerful and evil companies in the world, deep into goverments where even prime ministers are "ex"-Shell men) and Bilderberg. They founded that shit. Bilderberg was founded by the Queens husband, who was later caught for severe corruption, and, hold it, having served for the SS. Do you want me to tell you more? Ken Saro-Wiwa would deserve a mention. Or check out the family of the current king's Argentinian wife, who liked to throw people out of airplanes.

you know, i just heard about the shell connection last night from a guy. it's taken me 8 months to finally start learning about how screwed up holland really is underneath all the normaal.

and thanks for the tips, i have a lot of reading to do.

gee, i don't feel so homesick anymore

[mr_a500]

"The trouble with Scotland.. is that it's full of Scots."

I didn't like the idea of Quebec separating (leaving a giant hole in the centre of Canada), but I think Scotland would do nicely as a separate country.

[Muirium]

Nova Scotia can come along for the ride, if they like. I hear there's good doughnuts…

[seebart]

haha I love the way you are posting this here MU (esp.the picture), I read and saw a lot about this topic in the news here.

Any brits here at DT?

Go for Independence!

The EU is a bloated, jumbled together group of states that agree on little in my opinion.

I'd like to have a female-only monarchy. Then we could be the Femdom of Scotland! It'd give all that sharp metal medieval paraphernalia a new meaning, for sure…

oh yeah.

we still have royalty in germany, they have been reduced to a joke though, especially this guy who likes to get into fights.

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[Muirium]

<Missing quote of A_500's supporting Nova Scotland union…>

Could do. We're more or less agreed on national symbols already:





And Americans think we both speak amusing accents! Maybe NS would be a great place for keyboard proxying… I'm in!

haha I love the way you are posting this here MU (esp.the picture), I read and saw a lot about this topic in the news here.

Any brits here at DT?

Go for Independence!

The EU is a bloated, jumbled together group of states that agree on little in my opinion.

I'd like to have a female-only monarchy. Then we could be the Femdom of Scotland! It'd give all that sharp metal medieval paraphernalia a new meaning, for sure…

oh yeah.

The best thing about the EU is that no one country has total power. In Britain, England is over 80% of the population, so we're very used to being overruled up here. Especially in the 1980s when our entire economy was devastated by a government Scotland voted against time and time again.

Much better being in a club with all manner of weirdos than just one big guy who knows he's boss!

[seebart]

Much better being in a club with all manner of weirdos than just one big guy who knows he's boss!

exactly, then at least you don´t know the outcome of disagreements from the getgo. BUT in truth Germany, France, Spain and Italy run the EU. It´s a bullshit club. Brussels is a paper tiger. No power there at all. Just interest management.

So this is not your crowd right MU?

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[the1onewolf]

I'd like to have a female-only monarchy. Then we could be the Femdom of Scotland! It'd give all that sharp metal medieval paraphernalia a new meaning, for sure…

Plz. Vote yes!
[emoji1]

[Muirium]

Hmm…

So this is not your crowd right MU?

Yeah, you can tell which way I'm leaning. Although the other side isn't perfect either…



Note the URL!

Speaking of which, a good argument against independence that I haven't heard used to be what about Scotland's top level domain? We missed out on the obvious .sc then .ca (Caledonia?) and .al (Alba?), and even .ec (Écosse!). Bugger. But very recently we wound up with .scot! So I guess that's one national crisis over…

[seebart]

nice image, I read an article today

Scottish independence: how would Scotland defend itself?

...about the brits peeing their pants because they might loose their precious submarine base Faslane-on-Clyde in Scotland and dont´have a alternative location...too bad they can´t park those nuke subs in lizzy´s royal stables.


those poor little defensless scotsmen (and Women) will then have to rely on ancient tactics..

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But very recently we wound up with .scot! So I guess that's one national crisis over…

you could get a fantastic new email: muirium.great@scot...

[Muirium]

Military jobs are one good reason against independence, actually. I'm sure all the soldiers up here, who are mostly Scots, will lean heavily to the No side, along with their families and the communities which rely on them for employment. Britain has pretty big armed forces for a country its size — after effects of empire — and a great dral of the whole lot is in Scotland. That tradition started in 1746 when a certain French Bonnie Prince Charlie lost in his armed attempt to make a Catholic United Kingdom instead of the Protestant one which lives on. The Highlands were a dangerous place. The best policy was to invest Scotland deep in the global British Empire. Worked quite nicely for a couple of hundred years. But less so since.

Anyway, Faslane is Scotland's ticket "back into" NATO and the EU. Its ours, and a fair big chip to use in political squabbles if required. Despite most Scots disdain for nuclear weapons! We're all too used to being armed with them.

[seebart]

yes those forgein miltary bases do provide jobs. We have the US armed forces here in Germany, they just "stayed" after 1945 for some reason (I should not crack jokes about this). Recently we learned the US is primarily using Germany as a global spy base these days. But most germans like the US forces anyway and want them to stay (those five guys in the pic being the exception ).

We don´t have any public votes on many important things here in Germany, goverment decides and that´s it.

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[Hypersphere]

@Muirium: Life in the faslane....

@seebart: It's important to keep in mind that governments and other organizations don't make decisions, people do. Institutions of all kinds are composed of individuals, and their opinions can be influenced by other people, as impossible as this seems at times.

[seebart]

governments and other organizations don't make decisions, people do

yes BUT they are people who are making those decisions in their role as politicians FOR the interests of the goverment, and many times those interests DO NOT match those of the public!

And many times the public is not even asked, or even informed of these decisions.

And I ONLY mean the german goverment!

[Muirium]

Absolutely. A lot of the evil looking stuff politicians do, where they turn against the promises that got them elected, is because they get transformed the closer to power they get. Intelligence agencies scare the shit out of them (how is a politician to tell what's real from those guys?) and then there's the shifting alliances they have to make to win power and to keep it.

The ultimate turncoat was Tony Blair. His UK government was elected in a landslide in 1997. Any daft git could have won that contest as the public was appalled with the 18 year old Tory government ever since it screwed up with the poll tax and the devastating ERM debacle that damaged the Pound in 1992. Anyway, Tony and his chums were all shiny and new. Many of them were former communists. But boy did they run to the right! Blair's ultimate self sacrifice (paid in soldiers and Iraqi blood, natch) wasn't so much of a surprise if you followed politics here. He didn't join Bush's war because he thought it was a good idea. It attracted him because it was so monumentally wrong. It all slid into place!

Referenda are brilliant. Actual democracy at work, warts and all. Believe it or not, this is the first time Scots have a vote on the whole Britain thing, after 307 years! So we're not exactly spoiled by them here either. London only agreed to it because they were sure it would shut Salmond up once and for all. We'll see in two weeks.

[vivalarevolución]

I am surprised to see all the votes in favor of Scottish independence. Reasons?

[Muirium]

My theory: Europeans know what a pain in the jacksie the London government can be!

[scottc]

Everyone likes a good bit of independence.

[scottc]

Oh shit, I really need to get a .scot domain!

[Halvar]

My theory: Europeans know what a pain in the jacksie the London government can be!

Very true!

Let's see how the last two weeks go ... they will probably try to scare the shit of the electorate by all sorts of F.U.D. during the last days. Fear is such a powerful force in decisions like that. So far it seems like they didn't succeed though.

[Muirium]

Yeah, I expect things to get a bit more passionate come the closing days. Indeed, this lot of clowns plan to march through Edinburgh the weekend before the vote to remind us where our loyalties ought to lie:



That'll be fun! Anyone who follows politics in Northern Ireland (don't!) will know what a ruckus to expect when the bowler hats come out. Ain't Britain something?

The cunning thing is that the party currently in power in London is the one which would gain the most if we split. Even with everything I've said about them already, I'm actually less Tory hating than the average Scot! Current predictions for next year's UK General Election don't look good for Cameron, as Labour should get a small majority. But you can see just how much of a boost the Tories would pick up without Scotland:

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http://electoralcalculus.co.uk/zoomablemap.html

Weird looking map: every seat is distorted to be the same area. But you can pretty much see England's borders by watching where the blue seats stop. And just how small and peripheral Scotland and Wales are in British politics. Political geography is the kind that really counts.

[7bit]

Looks like Tetris to me.

[seebart]

Looks like Tetris to me.

very well placed, 7bit!

Unfortunately the whole thing is more serious, but I´m sure the Scottish people are not one to be "manipulated" easily in their vote.If Independence is voted, a whole set of new problems could pop up for London in "their backyard".

[andrewjoy]

If you do go for Independence can we we build a new wall to keep you barbarians out ? only kidding

Whatever way it goes its going to be interesting to follow.

[webwit]

It's a map which shows where people make money. In the blue part, they make lots and want to keep it. In the red parts, they want more of what the blue part is having.