Scottish Independence

[Muirium]

I just got my postal ballot for the referendum on September 18. Which one would you go for?

The National Question.JPG (404.91 KiB) Viewed 9170 times

[webwit]

If you vote No, you may no longer call yourself Scottish. This would be a great insult to Mel Gibson, who fought for your country!

[scottc]

I can recommend independence. It seems to have worked out alright for Ireland.

[Muirium]

The no campaign like to talk as if you (and every man and his dog in Europe) were bankrupted in 2008, of course. You didn't have the pound, you fools!

All the arguments against are about money. Apparently the "But We're British!" appeal to UK patriotism never passed the focus groups…

[kbdfr]

Was the pen sent together with the ballot papers?

[benichka]

EMBRACE THE FREEDOM!

[Jmneuv]

Getting rid of UK politics seems tempting.. just wonder if the scottish part on its own is any better.

[Muirium]

Well, who really likes their politicians?

Spoiler:

So much to learn from North Korea!

[noesc]

FREEDOOOOOOOOM!

[Hypersphere]

This planet will never be invited to join the Federation.

[Muirium]

FREEDOOOOOOOOM!

You must be local. That's both campaigns summed up in a single word!

Something tells me the BBC won't be showing Braveheart the night before the election, no matter how much the SNP would like them to…

Was the pen sent together with the ballot papers?

Good job this isn't a pen forum, I've other tasteless ones as well!

[webwit]

Now I think of it is was good that Mel Gibson didn't win Scotland, or else now he'd have to give half to his ex-wife.

[Muirium]

You bet we're staying a kingdom. Part of the lure of independence is the ability to pick some ditzy celebrity to be the new Queen. Independence was much less popular in Scotland back in the 1950s and 60s when Elizabeth was still hot…

[matt3o]

what would be the benefit of independence again?

also somewhat unrelated.

[sth]

Change.

Hope.

Yes We Can.

[Muirium]

Alas, Salmond ain't no Obama. We totally need someone who isn't white running this thing! It's all bloody Scots…

what would be the benefit of independence again?

Tricky question. What is the benefit of Italy?

The weird thing with being inside the UK, apart from the occasional war you wind up fighting, is that your passport says someone else's country. Very few people call themselves British here. But there's no such thing as a Scottish embassy or seat at the UN, or the EU for that matter. Someone else looks after your interest instead. Oh, and as often as not, you voted against them and their domestic interest is opposed to yours.

Britain would make more sense if Scotland and Wales were more equal in size to England. But we're not. It's more like Italy vs. its Mediterranean islands than a working federation.


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[matt3o]

ok I didn't realize the sentiment was so strong. I thought it was like Texas.

[7bit]

I can recommend independence. It seems to have worked out alright for Ireland.

Well, that was a different time.

It is more like splitting Czechoslovakia.

What comes next?

Independence of
- Catalonia from Spain
- Vlaanderen from Belgium
- Bavaria from Germany
- Tirol from Austria and Italy

[Muirium]

Slovakia's an interesting one. They split quite peacefully from Prague, and are probably a bit worse off, financially, for it. But at least no one calls them Czechs now. We all used to!

If you've ever met one, you'll know Catalans aren't Spanish. Plus they have a bloody good football team. Scotland's is the second oldest in the world (we founded it to play against England) so we've been independent that way for centuries. But Scotland the football team is unfortunately shit…

Isn't Belgium more likely to be the new Flanders if they split? I thought the Waloons would prefer to be French? I'm pretty ignorant on this one.

Quite what Bavaria is doing inside of Germany, I don't know. Some accident of Bismarck's, surely. They're Austrian and they know it!

ok I didn't realize the sentiment was so strong. I thought it was like Texas.

It's a bit confused, really. Which ever way the result goes, it won't likely be a landslide. (Polls say 55-60% against.) Almost everyone voting no will be self-identifying Scots who fear for their pensions and such. The campaign literature is suspiciously void of union jacks and pictures of Westminster or Buckingham palace. You have to read the text to tell if it's arguing for or against.

I'm trying to imagine Texas being full of Texans who don't believe in the United States but are worried they could afford to go alone! Not quite how those guys are, I gather.

[andrewjoy]

Go for it if you want it, I would not recommenced it as I don't think Scotland's GDP can support its current spending on things like free uni and the likes. There are just too many questions ether way that have been left, will Scotland pay its share of the national debt ? Will you have to apply to be part of the EU as it is technically a new country. if you keep the pound as fatty says you will you wont have any control over it.

For me as someone who is from the UK and live in England i think its too rushed and needs to be a slow process not something you just do like that.

[Muirium]

Yeah, the argument for staying in Britain is so that we can keep spending all your money. We've gotten very used to it! A lot of things up here are better run simply because of all the extra cash in the budget.

Of course, that can't last forever. Someday you guys are going to vote in some real Tory like Mrs. T again, and every voter in Scotland won't be able to do a damn thing about it, except for this!

As for currency: I'm firmly for the Euro. In fact, I think it's mandatory for all new EU member states these days. But we're brainwashed by the same Murdoch press up here, and most people are dead against it. One hurdle at a time, eh?

[andrewjoy]

The them posh tory n*b heads screw the north of England just as much as the screw you .

look at how much percentage wise ( and that's the important bit) northern councils have been cut compared to the southern ones its out of order.

I also think you would be better off with the euro , i think we all would.

[Muirium]

Actually, they screw you guys a lot more than us. (Only Thatcher had the balls.) I'd love to see the English regions get a bit of political identity going and demand more money like how we do. But when Blair's lot gave the North East a referendum, they voted no! Even we knew which side our bread was buttered when asked that question in 1997. Very few Scots were against a Parliament. Now it's just whether we want to scrap the other one.

[Eszett]

There are sensible businesslike and realistic arguments against an independence. But IMHO the force of psychology matters alot more. There is a long history of discrimination which had an impact on the people of scotland in terms of feeling of self-esteem. This is a huge factor, which is wrongly neglected. Self-esteem. An example is, whenever scottish sportsmen won a medal, media presented them as sportsmen of the UK, whenever they lost, they stayed scots. IMHO Scotland has to regain its self-esteem, through independence. Whatever the consequences.

[Muirium]

That's what the yes side is hoping for now. The polls have been against for a long time, without much change. It's kinda close, but so long as the undecided don't turn out, it'll be a no. All depends on who shows up on polling day.

[noesc]

Sadly Muirium, I'm not local and I've only been as far as central London once. The best holiday of my life though! =)
Nearly cost me my job! Well come to think of it, it did cost me my job! I fell in love with a girl on the other side of the world and had to move ASAP =)

We're actually up for the Swedish election in a couple of weeks, and honestly, I have no idea what to vote for. Socialist/Communist left, Captialist right or the very undecisive middle?
Should we leave EU? Should we incorporate the Euro? Should we bend over backwards and let U.S.A. & UK fuck us over even more then we already pretend they don't?

I'm just too ignorant about the world. I realise this, and I'm actually allowed to vote! And then, to think of those who actually are allowed to vote and does so without any second thought, that scares me :s

Murium, good luck to you and your country

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The Scottish (and the Welsh and Northern Irish) are my fellow countrymen (and countrywomen) — it hurts me when people feel divided over it. It's interesting though how we have TV personalities in the UK from the Irish Republic (Dara O Briain for example) who work here just as if they were British — in some ways it's like we never split.

I have no idea why any country would throw away its sovereign currency. The idea of discarding the pound sterling is just unthinkable to me. We may as well throw away fish and chips while we're at it — everything British out the window into a ditch.

[Muirium]

Northern Ireland is where things get complex indeed. Almost half the population there feels very passionately that they are no countrymen of yours, or mine, but the other half couldn't agree more.

When the central bank for the currency in your pocket is already abroad (the Bank of England in Scotland's case) the Euro doesn't seem like a bad, or new, idea at all. We've been the outsider in a currency union for many centuries already.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The Bank of England needs renaming …

[webwit]

Next time I go hiking in the Highlands, I might have to call the locals English. Not British, because let's face it, England is the centre of the Empire, the rest is conquered. Technically they would be English whores, giving up independence for their pensions, free universities, etc., but that might hurt the feelings of these English patriots. It would possibly please them that I think it would be charming if football games start with God Save the Queen.