Ortek MCK-84 versions

[maxrunner]

Here's the photos of the white FX disassemble switch and the blue one i've changed with:

[Daniel Beardsmore]

You don't use something like IrfanView then? Impossible to use, but if you can figure it out you'll never give it up.

[maxrunner]

Never used that. But can you figure out what switch it is?

[maxrunner]

Also it seems my other non monterey minitouch also uses this switch too. I actually have two minitouch and two ortek lol

[Daniel Beardsmore]

You mean non-SMK MiniTouch — Monterey made the MiniTouch (it's a rebadged [wiki]Monterey K110[/wiki]) and the switches were sourced from SMK (the "Monterey" switch) and Himake.

Your switch above appears to be a bog standard alps.tw Type T1, which is an exact match for the photo Hua-Jie sent me of the AK-CN2 (which is no longer sold).

[maxrunner]

Yes, one uses monterey blue switches and has better caps with blue numpad characters, the other seems to use the exact same type of switches this FX ortek had. Im also switching that one with mathias silent swit i can post pics tomorrow if you want.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I don't personally need photos of modified keyboards, only original products. I always have to bear in mind that keyboards with uncharacteristic switches may be the result of transplants, especially something like blue or white Alps.

The alps.tw Type T1 switch was used by a lot of companies. Monterey bought theirs from Himake, making it an AK-CN2 (confirmed by a photo of an actual AK-CN2 disassembled). (Nobody knows whether the AK-CN2 was preceded by an AK-CN — it's clear that the design of the switch evolved, but whether it was always the AK-CN2, or whether it was called AK-CN before, we may never find out.)

The other companies that used T1 switches included ELSA Communication, Focus (in particular the later FK-2001 production) and Ortek. I forget whether I've confirmed them to be used by Strong Man — Strong Man certainly used switches with the same numbering on them, but unless you open one up you won't know what type it is.

The cheap versions were AK-C5 (clicky) and AK-D5 (linear). [wiki]Alps.tw Type T8[/wiki] is the closest that I've found so far to something matching the specs for AK-C5 and AK-D5. AK-C5 and AK-D5 are now discontinued in favour of AK-CN2 (2) and AK-DN2 (2), which are internally identical to Xiang Min KSB-C and KSB-N respectively, but the numbering is different.

There's a keyboard that rzwv has, though, with Xiang Min numbering but as I recall, T1-like internals, suggesting that Xiang Min used the same metal parts as the AK-CN2 and AK-DN2 previously, but with their own plastic parts and therefore their own numbering.

This is why I'm so keen to get more manufacturers to yield their secrets!

[maxrunner]

Both keyboards still have thevoriginal switches. I havent fully start to change the minitouch with the white fake alps.

[maxrunner]

I also have a smk-85 keyboard which is said to use strong man switches. Still i'm still a bit confused by all these descriptions. But can you tell me what switch with the inverted alps word means again, is it a true alps? simplified?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Ah, "Strong Man" switches. I don't think they exist — Strong Man variously applied that term to unbranded Alps simplified (after the Alps logo got removed) and Alps clones.

Alps keycaps can go on either way around, and the switches can be soldered either way around (legs at the front, or legs at the back). However, with respect to the logo orientation, with the logo being the right way up, complicated Alps switches had the legs at the back, and simplified Alps had the legs at the front, so if the PCB was retained from complicated Alps days, the writing would appear to be upside down. When Forward Electronics removed the Alps logo, the writing went back to being the "correct" way up. (Or so it seems — it's still partially speculative, but everything I've seen so far seems to concur.)

It's not proof of switch type of any kind as it depends how the PCB is arranged; the switch identification comes from the mould numbering:

[wiki]Alps SKBL/SKBM series[/wiki] (simplified Alps)

[maxrunner]

Your switch above appears to be a bog standard alps.tw Type T1, which is an exact match for the photo Hua-Jie sent me of the AK-CN2 (which is no longer sold).

So why is in the Deskthority wiki these two references for the same switch?An alps.tw Type T1 is a AK-CN2?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

alps.tw's classification is a little hard to understand. For example, BA1 depicts complicated white Alps, but as I understand it, BA1 means complicated clicky Alps, so it covers blue and white. BA2 is complicated tactile, and while orange is depicted, it covers orange, salmon, cream tactile and black.

Most clones are unbranded, so he classified them by the shape of the internal parts. He did not pay any attention to the numbering on them. I do not know anyone else who has ever considered the numbering to be significant. While some are branded (e.g. ATW, GA) and some have identifiers (e.g. D-TRNS), none of this text has ever been traceable back to any manufacturer or product line. I recall Matias telling me that the numbering should be ignored as it cannot be used meaningfully, or words to that effect.

(If you dig deeper it gets a lot weirder, especially if you can't read Chinese and don't understand Far East business practices.)

As such, I use the numbering as a guide, not proof of switch manufacturer.

I have started stating as a fact that the K110/MiniTouch used AK-CN2 because Monterey told me they sourced the switches from Hua-Jie (though I assume it would have been Himake at the time, who still exist as a subsidiary), and the switches in the K110 exactly match the photo I got from Himake of the AK-CN2. (This is how I learned that Himake and Hue-Jie exist. I encountered another clone manufacturer recently, Kwanda, but they won't send out any samples and they don't have any spares in stock to photograph. There are still several more Alps clone ranges to be explored and identified.)

Personally I believe that all these major Far East keyboard manufacturers bought AK series switches, but I don't feel that I have enough evidence to state this as a fact yet. As such, I list keyboards as having Type T1 switches for now. There are many clone product ranges, but most switches you're likely to encounter will have numbering that implies Himake.

[cherry-jade]

This is my mck .

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Did you add LEDs inside the switches, then? If so, which switches did you use?

[cherry-jade]

Did you add LEDs inside the switches, then? If so, which switches did you use?

I got the board as is . It's mx bule. The caps is double shot which Cherry original keys.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What model is it? How much of the case did you get — is there a label on the back with the model number on? Also, does the keyboard controller chip have a production date on it? The date may be a number like "9633" (week 33 of 1996).

From that one photo, I can't tell that it's an Ortek, and I don't know the model or year. "MCK" isn't a model: it has to be MCK-something, e.g. MCK-101FX, MCK-84SX. (FX should be Alps clone, SX should be real Alps — I need to test this theory with other sizes besides the 84–89 key series.)

[cherry-jade]

It mya be used as a notebook board just as the DOLCH.
The borad had none label or paper on the back.
I only can see MCK under its sapce bar .
I'll get the photo,may be it's false memory.

[maxrunner]

mck with mx switches????

[Muirium]

Show us a picture of the switches! It's either Alps mount or something funny's going on…

[maxrunner]

I'd say funny...

[maxrunner]

Keycaps are probably Tai-Hao.

Interestingly, I just started a table last night detailing the switches I am assuming to be Himake/Hua-Jie AK series:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Hua-Jie_AK_ ... Variants_2

Obviously I've got more to add to it, as well as the second table for the reduced metal variants.

The bad news is that the only way to be sure what switch it is, is to open one up, but they're a nightmare to reassemble unless you desolder the switch and reassemble it in your hand, so don't take this decision lightly.

Odds are it's a Himake AK-CN2 or AK-C2.

Never seen "MKB" instead of "MCK" before … typo, or special variant? I've had no luck getting any information out of Ortek, sadly.

Daniel, the mkb from suka also has an iso shaped return key but its missing the extra ISO key to the right of the left shift, like my ISO SX and FX MCK.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Daniel, the mkb from suka also has an iso shaped return key but its missing the extra ISO key to the right of the left shift, like my ISO SX and FX MCK.

suka's pictures are the reference for MKB-84 FX on the wiki; his keyboard is already listed.

[cherry-jade]

Sorry,my false memory.
Just one letter different.

Sorry...

[Muirium]

Well colour me green…

[maxrunner]

Daniel, the mkb from suka also has an iso shaped return key but its missing the extra ISO key to the right of the left shift, like my ISO SX and FX MCK.

suka's pictures are the reference for MKB-84 FX on the wiki; his keyboard is already listed.

But ny FX has the iso key and iso return key.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Yours is an MCK-84FX, his is an MKB-84 FX.

[maxrunner]

Yep which might explain the lack of iso key but the iso return one.