Introducing the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard

[mondalaci]

Dear Deskthority,

We've been working on a project that we can’t wait to reveal. It’s been incredibly challenging, but also vastly rewarding. Without further ado, let me introduce you the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard.

There is so much that I could say but I rather let our site speak instead. You're welcome to visit http://UltimateHackingKeyboard.com which is jam-packed with more information.

We also have working prototypes as you can see on our blog and we're gonna kickstart this project about 2 months from now on so if you want to have your own keyboard or want to see us succeed then you're more than welcome to like us, share us and subscribe to our mailing list so that you'll be notified when our Kickstarter campaign starts.

Last but definitely not least: should you have any questions or opinions, please feel free to let us know.

Have a great weekend!
László Monda - Lead developer of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard

[Broadmonkey]

Interresting, I really like the split feature... but that name!

[scottc]

Seems like an interesting project, and the adjustable split design is nice.

One question: Why did you go for so many non-standard keycap sizes? Enter, backspace, pipe, super: they're all very awkward sizes. Lots of people in the community are interested in swapping keycaps out for better quality or nicer looking sets and trimming off 0.5U seems like a bad compromise. I understand in the case of the spacebar, but a few of the others are easily avoidable...

And I agree with Broadmonkey, it's certainly an interesting name.

[wheybags]

What switches?
The render looks like it has mx blues

[Muirium]

Split is indeed good. But when giving a nod to the HHKB, do remember to borrow its best features, like the short right Shift and Fn key. Instead, the right side of this layout looks more like Apple's, trimming off a half unit and making caps upgrades way harder.

[Hypersphere]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.
My first impression is that the UH board would not work for me, but it has so many possibilities there are surely others who would like to purchase and use this keyboard.

Some quick questions:

Cherry switches? Any alternatives for switches?
Completely programmable?
Swappable backspace and backslash?
Dimensions when right and left halves are joined?
Price?

Thanks again.

[scottc]

Split is indeed good. But when giving a nod to the HHKB, do remember to borrow its best features, like the short right Shift and Fn key. Instead, the right side of this layout looks more like Apple's, trimming off a half unit and making caps upgrades way harder.

Agreed on all counts!

[Muirium]

This familiar layout reminds me that I should fix my Apple Adjustable Keyboard:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_Adjustable_Keyboard

[mondalaci]

One question: Why did you go for so many non-standard keycap sizes? Enter, backspace, pipe, super: they're all very awkward sizes. Lots of people in the community are interested in swapping keycaps out for better quality or nicer looking sets and trimming off 0.5U seems like a bad compromise. I understand in the case of the spacebar, but a few of the others are easily avoidable...

The idea was that given that the right keyboard half is considerably wider than the left keyboard half let's make the right half less wide by 0.5U. I still think that it's a reasonable compromise given that the rightmost keys are still long enough this way to be pressed easily but you're right that it's swapping-unfriendly.

[mondalaci]

What switches?
The render looks like it has mx blues

You can ask for MX blues or MX browns, just as the FAQ states.

[Muirium]

Asymmetry is really annoying, when you notice it. Full size keyboards are so right-heavy it's bizarre we ever decided this was standard! But even a 60% isn't centred on home row, as you say.

A half unit trim isn't worth the compatibility headaches, in my opinion. But Apple's done it for decades anyway! Not that there's much point in upgrading their caps…

[mondalaci]

Split is indeed good. But when giving a nod to the HHKB, do remember to borrow its best features, like the short right Shift and Fn key. Instead, the right side of this layout looks more like Apple's, trimming off a half unit and making caps upgrades way harder.

Not planning to give a nod to the HHKB because up until this point I wasn't even aware about these similarities. I don't think that it's rocket science to come up with these features.

[mondalaci]

Cherry switches? Any alternatives for switches?

Blue and brown are the options and who knows what other options we will offer later, just as the FAQ states.

Completely programmable?

Yes, just as the main page states.

Swappable backspace and backslash?

Unfortunately, backspace being 1.5U wide and backslash being 1U wide this is hardly possible.

Dimensions when right and left halves are joined?

285mm x 146mm x 28mm = 11.2" x 5.7" x 1.1"

Price?

We're aiming for $200 and quite frankly given our costs we cannot sell it any cheaper without going bankrupt.

Thanks again.

No problem and thank you for your interest!

[Hypersphere]

Split is indeed good. But when giving a nod to the HHKB, do remember to borrow its best features, like the short right Shift and Fn key. Instead, the right side of this layout looks more like Apple's, trimming off a half unit and making caps upgrades way harder.

Not planning to give a nod to the HHKB because up until this point I wasn't even aware about these similarities. I don't think that it's rocket science to come up with these features.

Prof. Wada worked rather long and hard on coming up with the features embodied in the HHKB Pro 2. Perhaps because of the success of the HHKB, its features have become part of the collective consciousness.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The layout rules out ISO completely as ISO return simply won't fit at all. That rules it out forever for me.

[Hypersphere]

@mondalaci, thanks for your answers to my questions.

Regarding switch choices, I was actually wondering about the possibility of non-Cherry switches (such as Matias switches), but if you are already in production with Cherry switches, I suppose you will stick with this switch type.

About swappable Backspace and Backslash, I do this with my IBM keyboards. I also notice that the new Kul keyboards have this feature (they provide the extra keycaps for the swap as well).

The cost is high, but considering the design, I can see that it would probably need to be around $200. As you no doubt know, this puts it in a similar price bracket to the Realforce 87u and Leopold FC660C/EG, but somewhat less than the HHKB Pro 2.

Best wishes for success with your new venture!

[Muirium]

The split design does give this keyboard an edge. You don't see that many split 60%s. Definitely the right idea to bring something new to the table for launch.

As for switches, MX is really the only game in town for anyone starting out. Caps and stabs and, of course, awareness in the mech keyboard community in general. Actually, I wonder who's making the caps for this? Might be a secret, of course, but cough once if it's our old friends Signature Plastics, and twice for Tai-Hao!

[Broadmonkey]

I highly doubt they will use either SP or Tai Hoi. Tai Hao might be cheap in the eyes of the community, but getting legends cut and molds made is not cheap at all, add to that the need for front printing on the keys. The key caps will not matter in sales of this keyboard, as the targeted group knows nothing of key caps and don't care.
The price increase from having the split feature along with all the other features has already made the price reach a point in which most people find it too expensive, raising it more only hurts it.

[matt3o]

such an interesting project.

my two cents.

right super is huge and so useless I can't even start. left super is in the wrong position. You use ctrl with your palm. Ctrl as second key from the left forces the thumb in a very unnatural position. I find this a pretty rookie mistake. Anyway if the keys can be reprogrammed it's not a big deal I guess...

I find the FN position right. If you really don't want to put the FN to the right of the right shift, beside the spacebar is a nice spot.

I really don't like the "UK" pad to the top, I feel it doesn't match the rest of the design, but maybe it's just me. Honestly I would make it the less intrusive as possible.

Note on the "Copyleft", quoting your text:

We've already released the bootloaders and will also release the mechanical CAD files within 5 years of the initial release.

Five years?! Really?!

[mondalaci]

Actually, I wonder who's making the caps for this? Might be a secret, of course, but cough once if it's our old friends Signature Plastics, and twice for Tai-Hao!

I'm sorry but given that we'll open up pretty much everything eventually, we'd like to have at least a little bit of a leverage so our policy is not to give away our manufacturing partners.

What I'm allowed to say is that finally assembly will happen in Hungary because we insist to do the final QA. The cases will also be injection-molded in Hungary and the steel guides will be precision-machined here, too.

[mondalaci]

right super is huge and so useless I can't even start.

How would you do it differently? Should we make it 1.5U wide just like the neighboring keys and make the case reach into the unoccupied area? I barely think that'd look right design-wise.

left super is in the wrong position. You use ctrl with your palm. Ctrl as second key from the left forces the thumb in a very unnatural position. I find this a pretty rookie mistake.

It's not a mistake but purposefully designed as such. In touch typing books and tutorials nobody speaks about with which finger should Ctrl, Alt and Super be pressed. Many people press Ctrl with their palm because that damn key is so far away from the center. When using our factory keymap you can easily press Ctrl with your pinky. I think this is way more natural after getting used to.

Anyway if the keys can be reprogrammed it's not a big deal I guess...

Correct, you're free to customize the default keymap.

I really don't like the "UK" pad to the top, I feel it doesn't match the rest of the design, but maybe it's just me. Honestly I would make it the less intrusive as possible.

Actually, on the front picture the UHK logo (which you referred to as the "UK pad") seems considerably more vivid than in reality. On our prototypes it's already a lot more subtle.

Note on the "Copyleft", quoting your text:

We've already released the bootloaders and will also release the mechanical CAD files within 5 years of the initial release.

Five years?! Really?!

To put things into context here's the sentence that stands right before the sentence you quoted.

Following successful funding we will immediately open source the firmware, the electronics design files and Agent under the General Public License, version 3.

I think we're absurdly open compared to our competitors. After pouring thousands of hours of our life into this project we'd like to have some leverage.

[Grond]

Nice to see a new split keyboard. I think the minimal case is kind of spoiled by the top design. I especially dislike the small screen, which makes the keyboard look like a 80s calculator. A indicator for the current layour is sure handy, but I guess a more discreet solution could be found.

[matt3o]

put two keys in place of the right super. why that would be a problem?

but it seems you already made up your mind and this post is more of a ad campaign. Nothing wrong about that, it's a very interesting project.

[matt3o]

The layout rules out ISO completely as ISO return simply won't fit at all. That rules it out forever for me.

there are actually ISO returns that would fit (SP has them). pretty rare though.

[mondalaci]

put two keys in place of the right super. why that would be a problem?

but it seems you already made up your mind and this post is more of a ad campaign. Nothing wrong about that, it's a very interesting project.

Even though by and large we've made up my mind, we're definitely interested in your opinion. Even if we won't implement your input in the first version that doesn't mean that we won't ever implement it in future versions. So by all means please keep your suggestions coming!

We could put two 1U keys instead of the 2U right super but then it'd be harder to press right bottom right key with the palm of your hand. It's all about compromises.

[mondalaci]

Nice to see a new split keyboard. I think the minimal case is kind of spoiled by the top design. I especially dislike the small screen, which makes the keyboard look like a 80s calculator. A indicator for the current layour is sure handy, but I guess a more discreet solution could be found.

Should you have any concrete suggestions, please let us know! It's remarkably hard to come up with something that looks and works well (and is manufacturable). Up until this point you're the first person with this opinion but we're always open to better solutions.

[Muirium]

but it seems you already made up your mind and this post is more of a ad campaign. Nothing wrong about that, it's a very interesting project.

Yeah, I'm definitely getting that from the Kickstarters we're beginning to see show up here. They'll be polite, and answer questions, but their designs are already set in stone before we heard about them. Pity. Because when something is already finished, it's dead in a way. We're the kind of hackers who like the live stuff! As every comment on this thread shows quite clearly.

Then I hot "Submit" and…

Even though by and large we've made up my mind, we're definitely interested in your opinion. Even if we won't implement your input in the first version that doesn't mean that we won't ever implement it in future versions. So by all means please keep your suggestions coming!

Cool. I get how the Kickstarter model, and production in general, leads to this kind of thing. Lots of work goes in at the front, so by the time you're ready to announce there's not much still with wiggle room. It would be great to hear about these projects much earlier, when there's more at stake than just whether they hit the funding goal or not. The less we've got riding on it, the more it's just another project, and $200 looks like another expensive keyboard, rather than one we're attached to.

We could put two 1U keys instead of the 2U right super but then it'd be harder to press right bottom right key with the palm of your hand. It's all about compromises.

Design is compromise. The art is in making it look "inevitable". In reality, there are always other directions things could go.

[002]

Cool. I get how the Kickstarter model, and production in general, leads to this kind of thing. Lots of work goes in at the front, so by the time you're ready to announce there's not much still with wiggle room. It would be great to hear about these projects much earlier, when there's more at stake than just whether they hit the funding goal or not. The less we've got riding on it, the more it's just another project, and $200 looks like another expensive keyboard, rather than one we're attached to.

Agreed, and this doesn't just apply to Kickstarter. The Novatouch, from what I can tell, has been a good example of being open to suggestions early on. The boundaries don't necessarily have to be wide, but engaging the community early to get feedback on stuff that *can* be changed is important.

[Grond]

Should you have any concrete suggestions, please let us know! It's remarkably hard to come up with something that looks and works well (and is manufacturable). Up until this point you're the first person with this opinion but we're always open to better solutions.

I don't know how many layers are there, but if it's just three I guess three leds with different colors or symbols may be enough, isn't it?

[Muirium]

A nice way to indicate layers (and provide feedback when programming them on-board in the first place) is to put LEDs into the numrow. Backlighting sucks on MX, but those shoulder mounted LEDs still do the job they were originally intended for: lock indicators. You don't even need crappy thin caps to see where the glow's coming from.

But yes, a few LEDs in a sequence anywhere would be preferable to a weird display. Unless that thing was damn smart and helped you through remaps etc. with some nice interface; though that would be a ton of work.