Cherry MX and Matias switches

[Vierax]

I'm afraid the black and dark greys will arrive after the MXLOCKs are here.

Just send SHIPNOW if you want to have something shipped earlier. Depending on you order volume, I might ship the earlier package for free.

Thx I can wait, it's just to be sure to chose the most convenient packing way for you The more I wait, the more I order from you

[Muirium]

Oh, I didn't know that, I thought greens and greys had the same actuation force (80 cN)

I see the wiki agrees with you:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX#T ... n_variants

Sort them by activation force, and it's like MX green is essentially the clicky peer to linear and tactile grey.

But they really don't feel that way. Time to dig out some switches…

Okay, so I have one switch of each grey – one linear, one tactile – and they're easily the heaviest MX of the whole lot. (Well, putting the historical "super black" to one side as they're a whole other story. And I don't have one to play with yet. But I do have MX red, black, blue, brown, clear, white, green, both greys and a Nixdorf black and MXLOCK.)

A spare MX green can't stand up to the greys. Pressing two switches together, stem to stem, is a simple way to visualise this. You can see which one caves in first, and get a visual on how the tactiles and clickies stack up against linears. The green is just blown away by my linear grey. But a regular MX black is a much closer match.

I'd rate MX green as the clicky equivalent of MX black. In fact, several switches are right in that zone: MX clear and MX lock are about the same weight as a black, too.

There's an equivalent group among the light switches. MX blue is close to MX red, and brown is right in that zone too.

The greys meanwhile are another level of spring weight again, right up at the top of the whole range. My greys balance each other closely, but dominate any other switch paired up against them. So there is no (currently available) clicky equivalent to either MX grey.

Note that none of this was objective, scientifically controlled testing. Not even coins were involved in this experiment! But the pattern is quite striking when you have the switches spare to try this for yourself.

[scottc]

I think it's interesting how the linear switches "feel" heavier than clicky or tactile switches with the same weight of spring. I think it's because it's typical for people to push until bottoming out on the linears. With clickies, it physically clicks before bottoming out, giving you some sort of feedback, which is why I think it "feels" like less effort to press it. Very scientific!

Muirium - if you take apart your linear grey and green, I believe they have the same springs. Particularly interesting, since they certainly don't feel the same at all!

I recently had an experiment where I swapped springs around MX switches. I did the usual stuff: ergo clears, the opposite (which I like to call "arthritis browns"), but more importantly I took the MX black spring and put a blue stem in and it felt significantly different to an MX green, which I was very surprised by.

[Muirium]

Hmm. I'd be mightily surprised if that were the case. But if there's switches I have spares of aplenty it is blacks and greens, so I might as well have a try when there's good light sometime.

The testing I wrote of is all about pairing switches directly to compare force curves. Not by feel, but by watching their sliders move in paired compression: a mechanical property. Something other than faulty human sensation would have to explain grey's heaviness over green, and black's contrasting similarity.

[scottc]

I may be wrong! I only have blacks and one grey around here now, so I can certainly take a picture of those two for comparison to your springs. Someone with all three should verify this.

[Grendel]

Oh, I didn't know that, I thought greens and greys had the same actuation force (80 cN)

I see the wiki agrees with you:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX#T ... n_variants

Sort them by activation force, and it's like MX green is essentially the clicky peer to linear and tactile grey.

But they really don't feel that way. Time to dig out some switches…

I doubt that the tactile grey has the same force as the green switch. I have moved a blue stem into one of my grey's and it's substantially heavier than a green switch. Nowadays the whole MX line seems to be three tiered -- light (red, brown, blue), medium (black, clear, green), and heavy (grey). If you use light, space is supposed to be medium, and for medium it's heavy.

[scottc]

...I have moved a blue stem into one of my grey's and it's substantially heavier than a green switch...

Oooh, now that's very interesting. Maybe I am completely wrong then. Doing the opposite (MX black spring in an MX blue) felt much lighter than an MX Green for me too. I wonder if a Cherry guru can set us straight and explain why this happens.

[kekstee]

From what I've gathered the springs are not just three different types with various sliders but instead on a more switch to switch basis. But I don't have any way to measure them, so I'm basically taking a stab in the dark here.

scottc might also have switched a vintage black into his blue, that should be lighter as well. I don't know exactly which types exist, but I have two different black switches which bottom out at 70 something and above 80g (measured in 5 cent coins...) (well, 3 if you count superblacks which happily slided at 170g worth of coins on top)

I'm still waiting on some obscure switch types to become available and already think I might order Clears to combine with 62g springs :D I should consider a write up of different switch/spring combinations once I get my hands on all those…

[Muirium]

Indeed. I wouldn't rule anything out without real testing. The human instinct to see patterns in things is overwhelming! Perhaps every switch has its own dedicated strength of spring? I doubt it, but only by my ill informed hunch.

[scottc]

scottc might also have switched a vintage black into his blue, that should be lighter as well.

I should be so lucky!

[jefferai]

I'm still waiting on some obscure switch types to become available and already think I might order Clears to combine with 62g springs I should consider a write up of different switch/spring combinations once I get my hands on all those…

Watch out for the binding that was mentioned with Ergo Clears. Basically, with too light a spring it can have a hard time pushing up the stem. The recommendations I read were to use 65g springs instead (which I got, along with lube, from Originative). If I pay close attention I can sorta feel the switch being a tad slow to push up (it could also entirely my head since I'm predisposed to believe it will be there), so I am glad I went with the 65g springs and would recommend them to others, as the 62g would probably be a little worse in this regard.

[Vierax]

To stay in the switch test, what about MXwhite (the new) ? The pressure seems similar to green but the click is softer maybe like blue (I just realised that I don't have blues : something to add in my Locks order)

[7bit]

Please order MXWHITE and MXWHITE/NW here:
http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t2760.html

[Vierax]

You're creating an infinitive loop

7bit : What do you think about MXwhite in comparison to green and blue ? Is really the click more discrete or had I (no?) luck with my sample ?

[7bit]

The greens click best. I've got both in stock so you should order plenty of them, along with MXLOCKs for sure!!!

[dyger]

I have a white here and the click is not as loud as my blue and green switch which are about the same loudness. I would say the white isn't as high pitched as the green and blue.

[7bit]

Blues are sold out, but I will order another 4000 this week, so all new orders for blues (MXBLUE) can only be delivered in about 2 months.

[tups]

I've got no blacks and about 6 dark greys. I can ship you everything except the black.

So one message contradicts the other. And you still didn't send. Go figure...

Sorry, but where is one figure contradicting the other?

Had GH60 ordered everything from me, I would have been able to deliver, but they decided to order some switches from somewhere else, so I had no other choice. There are simply too few orders for blacks and darkgreys.

Your first post suggests you have stock of blacks and dark greys (do you not update it?). Your recent post also suggests you have 6 dark greys available.

I'll just remove both from my order then since you apparently still haven's shipped 552.

[7bit]

No, I don't update it regularly. Also, it says 04/2014.

I don't know when jdcarpe sends the GH60 stuff to komar, but hopefully soon!

[Vierax]

The greens click best. I've got both in stock so you should order plenty of them, along with MXLOCKs for sure!!!

I have a white here and the click is not as loud as my blue and green switch which are about the same loudness. I would say the white isn't as high pitched as the green and blue.

Thanks guys for the confirmation Sorry 7bit, I'm more a silent person than a lousy (and I like more the sound of MatiasClicky by far) so if I have to order for a new DIY board it will be Clears+Greys or MatiasTactile (even the new and not rare grey stems)
nice try

[Muirium]

Another thing to consider: only the Matias switches are damped. That makes as much difference in clack sound as the missing click. If you can find the caps you need, I'd go for an Alps build.

My own examples.

Apple Extended Keyboard II: Tactile white Alps
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4rwg5lzuz245z ... d%20II.m4a

Ducky Shine 3: MX reds
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oqagga96lyq7i ... %20Red.m4a

Same microphone, positioning, room, and typist. Damping makes a lot of difference.

[Vierax]

Nice typing speed
It's still possible to mod your MX by adding some soft landing pad into them but yes I'm more interrested by the feeling of Matias switches. Just need the Alps/MX mount converter or the Round6 (subliminal message here )

[Muirium]

Thanks. The few fingers I actually type with move pretty quick. Sounds better than it looks. I still must learn real touch typing, preferably with a split ergo in Colemak someday… (excuses)

Do soft landing pads affect the sound of "topping out" at all? I find my MX red Ducky is loudest when the caps return to the top. Naturally, o-rings have no effect on this.

[Vierax]

Yes I wonder : What are you waiting for learning Colemak ?!

No, this is a "landing" for bottoming out, no more. I'm not convinced that a lubrication can solve this annoying sound, I can't try, I'm not a pro-gamer (lulz)
And now I can't only ear this noise when I type…

[kile]

Just received order #308. Thanks, 7bit!

Thanks for the sample M9 switch! Are there any tactile variants available? At that price, they seem like a good option for experiments.

[7bit]

MXGOLD now available for preorder!


Price: only 1499.00 EUR

[Vierax]

A bit more expensive than the MX Silver Edition but it worth the price since the quality is better : full switch in AuAg 10% alloy : the best conductivity ever !

[Muirium]

Gold crosspoint? Screw that crap. Now it's Gold Gold Gold!

[7bit]

MOQ is 4000. I will only order these if I get at least 1000 orders!


Deadline is 31 April 2014.


Please order and pay as quickly as possible!

[Vierax]

Muirium > It must be lovely with your Golden Wingnut
7bit > is the GMK pure gold keycaps included ?
A rumor said that Kaihua is counter-attacking with its Cristal enclosure to permit backlighting leds. :/