Keyboard layout doesn’t make sense.

[bhtooefr]

Multitasking was implemented without Steve Jobs or the original Mac team around, and was inevitably a kludge until OS X brought NeXT's version in.

That's not entirely true - the first implementation of multitasking (or at least task switching - UI-wise, might as well be the same thing) was actually developed by Andy Hertzfeld, and everything was developed from there. And, in that, you were switching the whole machine between programs, which is how every other implementation of Mac OS multitasking UI worked, just a little more elegantly than that (with the MultiFinder menu for switching programs).

[fifted]

I use AutoHotKey to remap all sorts of F-key annoyances in Windows. For example, to use Win+Q to quit:

#q::Send !{F4}

One of my other favorites is Win+N to minimize:

#n::WinMinimize, A

All in all, I like having extra mods over extra buttons, but then my Ergodox might be skewing me that way since it conspicuously lacks single-purpose buttons (even F-row).

[Findecanor]

And to mention another disease: some of you guys like to attach a red keycap for escape, but who uses the escape key, for what?

Games: Menu screen. Sometimes it means "back" in nested menus, as it did in DOS programs.
In web browsers, Esc stops loading a page.

[Eszett]

Games: Menu screen.

You could argue for every single key, that it is used in some application, now and then. That is not my point. My point is that the most important characters or functions we use, should have better placement and accessibility on the KB, than less priority keys. And though each user has their own priorities and tasks, no one could argue that Ctrl-W or Alt-F4 is less in use than this orphan called escape. Our keyboards are full of hilarious orphans:
[Pause] – no use for me, but prominent placement on KB
[ScrollLock] – no use for me, but prominent placement on KB
[Print] – maybe 10x a year I take a screenshot with this, but prominent placement on KB
[Pos1] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
[End] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
[PageUp] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
[PageDown] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
... etc. pp.
I mean I feel like the keyboard wants to mock with me. Now you say: Eszett, stop complaining, get a 60%. All those 60% keyboards (except one) miss the arrow keys. They persist on a useless big fat capslock key and tab key, but spare the utterly usefull arrow keys, I feel mocked again?

[scottc]

I disagree with a lot of what. Scroll Lock, sure. Pause, definitely.

Home (Pos1), End, PgUp, PgDn - no dice. If you're scrolling a long webpage or editing a non-trivial file in something that's not Vim, they're very useful.

In any case: maybe you should buy a 60%.

Edit: Hahaha, I added that 60% part before noticing that you mentioned it in an edit to your own post!

[scottc]

Also tab: if you're a programmer and not using tab, you're probably some sort of sadist.

[Eszett]

@scottc offtopic: Even if you use tab extensively I recommend a more comfortable way to invoke it, try it out!

For myself I decided to assign these key combinations to "next sub-window" (next browser tab) and "previous sub window" (previous browser tab), since I consume more time browsing in Firefox then writing code.

[scottc]

Hmm, interesting. That doesn't work for autocomplete in a shell, though, and not for adding a tab - it only seems to advance a tab's width in the text. Still a nifty trick though, thanks for sharing.

Edit: Completely missed the point! I was supposed to remap them.

[Vierax]

I totally need Tab in a good access for prog and to jump in the next case in an online form : it's as important as backspace to me. Scroll lock and Pause are used in unix terminal and even if Print doesn't deserve a premium access, this is the Magic SystReq key in Linux and it's useful in kernel panic state.
A standard mouse user should have satisfaction with a 60% keyboard even a 40% if he's not a redactor, but the others (programmers, syst admin, nerds, keyboards addicts…) won't have without some extra layers and a dedicated layer lock or a shift layer with a Compose behaviour to handle easily such combos as Ctrl+Alt+F1 or Alt+SystReq+s
Even Ctrl+Alt+Del or Ctrl+PageUp/Down can be tricky if you don't have the dedicated keys.

[JBert]

@scottc offtopic: Even if you use tab extensively I recommend a more comfortable way to invoke it, try it out!

For myself I decided to assign these key combinations to "next sub-window" (next browser tab) and "previous sub window" (previous browser tab), since I consume more time browsing in Firefox then writing code.

Ehr, Ctrl-Left and Ctrl-Right are generally used for "word to the left" and "word to the right". I'd stick with Tab and Shift-Tab then.
For switching windows, there's also Ctrl-Tab and Ctrl-Shift-Tab.

Mind you, I have Ctrl where Caps lock normally is, so I press Ctrl-Tab with little finger and ring finger curled up.

[scottc]

I agree, I like my tab where it is also. I use it a _lot_...

[davkol]

derp

[Vierax]

you perfectly sum this up davkol

[Grendel]

you perfectly sum this up davkol

x2

[Spearman]

For switching windows, there's also Ctrl-Tab and Ctrl-Shift-Tab.

Firefox also has Ctrl-PgUp, Ctrl-PgDn to cycle tabs (which I tend to use rather than Ctrl-Tab).

[Vierax]

…
Even Ctrl+Alt+Del or Ctrl+PageUp/Down can be tricky if you don't have the dedicated keys.

[Muirium]

Firefox also has Ctrl-PgUp, Ctrl-PgDn to cycle tabs (which I tend to use rather than Ctrl-Tab).

Interesting. I use Command+[ or ] to go back or forward in history, and Shift+Command+[ ] to go between tabs. Works in every browser. Seems there's a dozen different ways to do it!

[Spearman]

Firefox also has Ctrl-PgUp, Ctrl-PgDn to cycle tabs (which I tend to use rather than Ctrl-Tab).

Interesting. I use Command+[ or ] to go back or forward in history, and Shift+Command+[ ] to go between tabs. Works in every browser. Seems there's a dozen different ways to do it!

I forgot about that. I tend to use Backspace/ Shift+Backspace for back or forward in history.

The one inconsistency that really bugs me is Ctrl+L not working in Internet Explorer but fortunately I rarely have to use IE (usually only on other people's computers).

[Muirium]

Ah, IE, I remember you. From version 4 and 5! Isn't it meant to be all cool and like the others now? What a surprise…

[Spearman]

Ah, I figured out where my preference for Ctrl-PgUp/Dn comes from; I use gnome-terminal with multiple tabs and that is the hotkey for switching between tabs as well (but not Ctrl-Shift-[/])

[Muirium]

Nothing makes me rage quit a new (to me) piece of software as fast as funky keyboard shortcuts!

[Spearman]

Oh, the worst is websites that have their own hotkeys. For example, on twitter 'F5' is remapped to 'reply to current tweet' instead of 'reload'.

[Muirium]

Absolutely. Web apps can be a real pain that way. But Command + R is where reload is burned in my mind.

[Spearman]

Oh, wow, didn't realize that existed . Imo Fkeys are should be reserved for more extreme circumstances

[cookie]

You could argue for every single key, that it is used in some application, now and then. That is not my point. My point is that the most important characters or functions we use, should have better placement and accessibility on the KB, than less priority keys. And though each user has their own priorities and tasks, no one could argue that Ctrl-W or Alt-F4 is less in use than this orphan called escape. Our keyboards are full of hilarious orphans:
[Pause] – no use for me, but prominent placement on KB
[ScrollLock] – no use for me, but prominent placement on KB
[Print] – maybe 10x a year I take a screenshot with this, but prominent placement on KB
[Pos1] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
[End] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
[PageUp] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
[PageDown] – useless, when you remap your arrow keys for this, but prominent placement on KB
... etc. pp.
I mean I feel like the keyboard wants to mock with me. Now you say: Eszett, stop complaining, get a 60%. All those 60% keyboards (except one) miss the arrow keys. They persist on a useless big fat capslock key and tab key, but spare the utterly usefull arrow keys, I feel mocked again?

Okay I don't understand where Pause/ScrollLock/Pring has a prominent placement? It is like miles away from the home row.
And if you say PageUp/Down is useless because you remapp it anyway why bothering about capslock(which is indeed useless)? I think you are mixing up a few things here because it is not absolutely clear what you really want. We all know that the default layout is full of flaws but if you tend to remap keys you should be fine or shouldn't you?
Or do you strive for (what I believe most of us do) for an overall usefull hardware based layout? Because you have to admit, telling the OS what keys you want to remap is lame, you want those stuff to happen on you keyboard! So that you can carry it around and have your beloved layout always with you

You already mentioned it but I feel that I have to tell you something you already know, you sound like a typical minimalist who is really bugged by the default layout (too big, too chuncky, too ugly). You should really consider a 60% keyboard even if there are arrow keys missing. I wen't this route and I hve never regret it. You will have a hard time learning the new layout and adapt to arrow keys on the function row but once you have get used to it, you will fall in love. Believe me!

[scottc]

You can always add arrow keys to a 60% for a less minimalistic layout. I was experimenting with this recently.

[Muirium]

Indeed. I even sneaked some into my pure 60% layout, as seen in Scott's thread here:

http://deskthority.net/post141070.html#p141070

If I felt I needed them any more than my right hand mods, they could even be on the default layer.

[matt3o]

this is a really old story.

I use right-hand mods quite a bit (especially shift and ctrl). I also use both "super" keys (win) on linux. "print" basically on a daily basis. ESC I'd say half a dozen time per minute. What I really don't use is caps lock, but if you ask my business accountant she can't live without it.

So the current layout is a mix between the need to meet general purpose audience and old times typewriters/keyboards.

The good news is that you can: 1) remap the keyboard 2) build your own!

[Muirium]

ESC I'd say half a dozen time per minute.

Where do you remap that then? Caps Lock could be an obvious position, if you didn't already use it for layer switching.

[matt3o]

ESC I'd say half a dozen time per minute.

Where do you remap that then? Caps Lock could be an obvious position, if you didn't already use it for layer switching.

Esc on 60% (and my leopold 660C) is in the best position (on ~`)