June minihaul

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 16:49

Following Stockwood Park radio rally (where I picked up a NIB G84-4400, Tulip SMK tactile and a Fujitsu Peerless), from Newbury radio rally I snagged the following:

IBM Model M 1391406 (UK ISO, from Greenock) — £1

Spoiler:

This is my first ever model M. Needs a clean, but it seems OK. Spacebar is just as lame as on a Unicomp :)

Dead Zenith Supersport SX 386 notebook, with Alps rubber-dome-in-a-box switches and double-shot Alps-compatible keycaps — £5

Spoiler:

These are a later variety of [wiki]Alps integrated dome[/wiki], with the following notable changes:

Blue slider (everyone knows blue Alps are good ;-)
Conventional Alps mount sliders
PCB mount only

The pin arrangement is probably the same.

They sound mechanical and they feel mechanical — they're a pretty decent switch. Also, the keycaps are doubleshot and not yellowed, so some lucky person may end up with them.

Necam 96 audio station keyboard, unknown low-profile switches — £3
Unbranded Nan Tan NTC-6251EA, white Alps, mounted on a plastic plate — £1

See next post.

dondy · 16 Jun 2013, 16:58

the zenith's caps look really decent, what would you want for them or rather do you want to part with them(goddamnit why are they ISO...)? also the model m looks like a real steal

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 16:59

Remaining pictures, as I hit the attachment limit:

The Nan Tan board — note the plastic plate:

Spoiler:

White Alps seem pretty decent (a gentler feel than clones) but I have yet to test any of the boards — will be interesting to compare with blues. Not proper ISO though. One of the T tabs is missing from a switch: the key had been struck hard, and the tab had detached and wedged under another keycap, jamming it. I had to lever the switchplate upright and reassemble the switch (the keycap was tilted forward, but it's fine now I've straightened the pins under the switchplate).

Necam 96 video board:

Spoiler:

Switches seem OK for low-profile linear — nothing like Cherry ML though, which is decent, if very scratchy. Weird design though. Note also that the main alpha keycaps are doubleshot, but the rest are engraved and infilled.

I cut off the cable completely: it looks like a rotten banana and feels worse, all brown and sticky. Really quite revolting. (It was all wrapped up when I bought it, and now I know why.) In case anyone ever has a use for this, I've preserved the plug :)

Just bought it as a curiosity, since it's likely an undocumented switch.

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 17:03

dondy wrote:the zenith's caps look really decent, what would you want for them or rather do you want to part with them(goddamnit why are they ISO...)?

I have no use for them whatsoever, but you just had some free Alps keycaps off me, you greedy git ;-PPP

I need to keep them until I get chance to take better photos for the wiki. I was wearing a t-shirt, sweater, coat and hat in the middle of June for goodness sake — whereas after Stockwood park I took a load of photos as soon as I got home, as I had bright sunlight to play with. This is Global Refrigeration!

I don't know whether anyone would like the keyboard as is — the switches are actually really decent, with a good tactile feel and a delightful mechanical sound. I had no idea they were domes inside.

Muirium · 16 Jun 2013, 17:16

Good haul, Mr. Beardsmore.

Radio rallies? First I heard of these. The closest one to me on this list is Port Seton (beside Edinburgh) in August:

http://www.southgatearc.org/rallies/

Just might have to give it a look to see if the magic combination appears again of Model Ms in attendance and people willing to sell them for good prices.

dondy · 16 Jun 2013, 17:40

pfff! totally not greedy but needy! ;D though arguably i'd not be as happy about ISO caps and the switches/board could also find a greater purpose

and isn't that the ordinary british summer? :}

anyways, nice finds!

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 19:05

Muirium wrote:The closest one to me on this list is Port Seton (beside Edinburgh) …

I dunno, at least one Scot came down to Berkshire for it ;-)

Findecanor · 16 Jun 2013, 20:18

Could the switch on the Necam board be a variant of the ICL switch?

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 22:09

Got a picture handy of the ICL switch?

There's nothing on the wiki about ICL anywhere — I am not sure they have ever been documented anywhere.

The LED variant has no upper shell, and the parts are different, but essentially it's a square loop of metal that makes contact with another piece of metal at the top left of the switch. When the slider rises, it lifts the metal loop up and away from the corner contact.

Model M works (via Belkin adapter) — typing on it right now. No real difference with a Unicomp except for the more twangy sound. One oddity is that the K keycap (the inner keycap) is free to rotate slightly. It's the inner keycap, as the problem moves with it to another switch. Visually I cannot see anything wrong with the keycap itself, though.

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 23:06

Just took apart the Necam 96 keyboard: it's from 1984. Both PCBs are branded Neve, from the British company that made them. "Cam" is a point of confusion: Neve make audio equipment. It's possible that the switches are branded on the bottom; maybe one day I will desolder one to check.

Trying the NTC white Alps board now. A little stiff as expected, but not as bad as Acer or typical clones.

nathanscribe · 16 Jun 2013, 23:42

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Just took apart the Necam 96 keyboard: it's from 1984. Both PCBs are branded Neve, from the British company that made them. "Cam" is a point of confusion: Neve make audio equipment.

From Neve's history page, they have (had?) operations in Cambridge. I suspect "cam" was added to differentiate. Either that or it's to do with the video aspect of the tech.

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 23:45

So far as I can tell, Necam/NECAM is a mixing studio system. I only had a quick look though.

I'm curious whether the keycaps are worth anything to anyone. Oddly, despite the disgusting cable, the keyboard is pristine inside.

Peter · 16 Jun 2013, 23:45

WOW - A Rupert Neve keyboard ??

The guy is a legend, Neves old mixers, pre-amps and EQ's are still in high demand
in the pro recording-world and sell for insane prices :
http://www.proaudiodesign.com/Neve-8028 ... aders.html

Makes sense that Neve would get in on the video-action in the 1980's, everybody else tried .

Also, somewhere around the mid-eighties, the company was sold to Siemens -
Maybe that board is a Siemens-job ?

Rupert Neve is also highly respected in the Audio-engineering world,
unlike many 'hi-fi'-quacks !
http://www.aes.org/events/119/press/pr_keynote.cfm

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 23:49

You wouldn't want to type on it though :) The travel is far too short for linear. It's a shame that the non-alphanumeric keys aren't also doubleshots, as then you'd get a complete set of vintage grey and blue à la Space Cadet keyboard.

Peter · 16 Jun 2013, 23:54

That makes sense, it's not a secretary-keyboard, it's a control-box for some specialized hardware ..
Like when you punch the 'Record'-button on a old tape-recorder - You don't want any 'latency' there .

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jun 2013, 23:57

Too bad there wasn't a typographic variant for the alphanumeric keys. The LED switches are different from the non-LED ones. All of them have a significant metallic clang to them, too.

Parak · 17 Jun 2013, 13:50

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: Just bought it as a curiosity, since it's likely an undocumented switch.

Looks Rafi-ish:

http://www.rafi.de/RS-76-full-travel-ke ... .html?&L=1

Daniel Beardsmore · 17 Jun 2013, 13:55

Well done my good man! That is exactly it. Saves me adding it to the wiki as an unknown switch :)

(Hm, RS 76 is 4 mm travel. They don't appear to sell a low-profile version — I will measure the travel later; I may need to ask RAFI about an earlier low-profile variant of the RS 76 :)

Daniel Beardsmore · 17 Jun 2013, 21:47

Yeah it's the 2 mm version. I shall ask RAFI.

rzwv · 23 Jun 2013, 01:14

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:These are a later variety of [wiki]Alps integrated dome[/wiki], with the following notable changes:

Similarly the next thing is using Alps integrated dome.

ZENITH ZA-180-89

Spoiler:

NEC PC-8800 TYPE C

Spoiler:

SHAARP WD-400KA
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15684998

Daniel Beardsmore · 23 Jun 2013, 01:24

Oo that is the matching number pad to my Supersport! (Same year: 1989) I hadn't even noticed until now that the keyboard lacks F11 and F12, until I saw them on the number pad! The leftmost column replicates the major keys on the keyboard that otherwise require Fn held to type. (Interesting break from the conventional size of 0 and . though …)

Interestingly, the PCB in the keypad is black coloured on top, whereas mine is bare brown material.

Thanks for the heads up — I'll reference your page on the wiki.

Daniel Beardsmore · 24 Jul 2013, 19:22

The RAFI switch type is RS74M apparently — I've got a 26 MB catalogue from RAFI that includes the various types I've got. Will write it up once I've had chance to study it. Hopefully they'll also tell me the date introduced and date discontinued.

Now just need to see if Stackpole are alive :)

Muirium · 24 Jul 2013, 19:29

Oddly enough, the Zenith's switches don't give me a nice beep on the continuity tester. They are four pin each, and no combination of pins gives a simple binary signal like Cherry and Alps. Instead, I'm getting ~100 ohms, if memory serves (need to use an analogue meter), on one pair when the switch is pressed. I'm inexperienced enough that I could be making a dumb mistake of course. But the other matrix I attempted lately (a Wyse ASCII) behaved as expected.

The Alps brand is clear and present on he back of the PCB, by the way. Will up it to the Wiki when I'm home.

Daniel Beardsmore · 24 Jul 2013, 20:56

I got a Futaba clicky switch in the sample pack from Mr Interface. That has three pins, and I can't get that to actuate. I could only conclude that it was duff, unless there's something really magic about it.

100 Ω or 100 kΩ? Robin Whittle notes that you need 10 kΩ or less for the switch to actuate, and that the resistance goes high with wear and age. It may be that conductive dome switches do have more resistance than metal contact. I have no idea honestly.

Muirium · 24 Jul 2013, 21:00

The meter was jumping around (as digitals do) so I need to try an analogue that will actually tell me. I'll look into my Futaba too, I only tested a few switches from the sampler for conductivity, presuming it was obvious. No assumptions!