Topre introduces new 'TYPE HEAVEN' keyboard at Computex

[002]

http://asia.cnet.com/topre-makes-afford ... 221533.htm

A new "budget" no-frills keyboard aimed at the $150-180 USD price range.
ABS lasered caps, no DIP switches (although most 104s don't have them either) and made in China.

[ne0phyte]

Heh. So that is what they call an affordable keyboard. $150+

This is interesting:

The keys on the Type Heaven have a 45g pressure sensitivity and have a life cycle rated for at least 50 million key presses. Topre previously rated its switches at 30 million but will be updating this figure to 50 million for all its keyboards. In other words, it has been underrating its switch life cycle up until now.

[Muirium]

Although unlikely the real reason, my first thought is maybe the test rig hadn't hit 50 million presses until now? That poor switch!

Very pleasing to see Topre stepping up to be the Cherry's high end rival. Chinese production seems to be opening up their lines of attack, and apparently without sacrificing reliability. Or hubris, at any rate.

The day we can buy our own Topre switches is the day Cherry is no longer the only game in town for custom keyboards. Looking forward to it!

[dondy]

you can always buy alps-types instead of cherry (mx) AFAIK, also...
150-180$ "budget" price - trololol

[Muirium]

That's true about Alps: or Matias switches in particular. I respect Matias for making its own switches when the Alps design finally stopped production, as they could always have just turned to Cherry. But the scarcity of Matias switch based keyboards from other manufacturers suggests they're not quite a rival yet. Topre seems to be further on the way to challenging Cherry head to head.

I've nothing against Cherry, but rivalry is better than stasis. Especially the radical kind that Topre brings to the table.

[RC-1140]

Even though I have tried Topre already, I still can't help but think of them as overpriced rubberdomes. I'll see how my opinion changes when I have the FC660C from tinlong117.
But even when my feelings change, I still don't believe that Topre boards can't be made cheaper. This way of reducing the price, while the most noticeable change is the keycap material makes me fear that the prices for Topre PBT DyeSubs will skyrocket for a short period, until other companies make them for cheap. But even that is to be doubted, as afaik the Topre keycap mount is patented.

Sure, competiton is good, but if Topre really goes down this path they will appear much less sympathetic to me.

If this post doesn't make sense I'll apologise. It's 7:00 am now, and I seriously need to go to bed. I'm not capable of coherent thought anymore.

[matt3o]

this is not a low price keyboard, this is just a low quality keyboard with high quality switches.

[002]

I don't think it's really fair to be calling it 'low quality' just yet. The price isn't actually too bad - I wouldn't be surprised if it goes cheaper than 150-180 anyway. The article quotes the 104 as being $235, but the 104 is $200 in Aus, and the 87 is $180. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Type Heaven at around the $130-160 mark in Aus...we'll see.

[cookie]

To me it looks like a cheap Rubber Dome and I bet the build quality will not be satisfying...
I mean , they cut the PBT Caps, Dip Switches, they produce this Keybaords in China and I am pretty sure that the switches are not plate mounted.

I can still remember how I get my first mechanical from Cherry and I thought "Great, no I am into some high quality stiff made in Germany" I ended up totally disapointed with that flimsy Made in Czech Republic trash in my hands...

I am afraight the same thing could happen with those Type Heaven boards :/
I'd rather spend 100Bugs more and get "The real thing"

[002]

I'd bet money that the switches *are* plate mounted because there's really no other option with Topre. The third image in my original post kinda confirms that, you can see the tell-tale cut edge of the metal. The only other mounting method is the moulded style HHKB method.

I think these boards will feel just as good as a Realforce. It's not like the case on the Realforce is stellar quality anyway (just ABS) but I like how easy it is to open it. If anything, Topre should now improve the Realforce. Start with giving us our PBT spacebars - Leopold can do it, so why can't Topre? . Give us some other knick-knacks like the VAN NUYS wrist rest or something - sweeten the deal otherwise the Realforce just seems too similar to the Type Heaven now.

[cookie]

You really think that? I actually can't judge this only by the pictures but I have a foreboding that some people will be really disapointed by the build quality and it's simply not smart to produce a similar product cheaper but with the same quality. I think the realforce will still remain above the Type Heaven.

And imo the Realforce needs a PBT spacebar and blank replacement caps for the bubble win key, for a product with that price it's a must! AND that keycap scratcher puller is a bad Joke

[Muirium]

I'd rather spend 100Bugs more and get "The real thing"

That's what Topre wants, too. This is an entry model. Once people get their first taste, they're far more likely to jump on up the line. You know how it is, waiting to try 002's Realforce before you take the plunge, just like me!

I get the impression that Topre sells the majority of its keyboards inside Japan, where they are already quite well known as a luxury brand. With extra high end models like the HiPro, I bet Topre feels pretty comfortable right where it is. That includes irritatingly few keycap options, and a general disinterest in non-Japanese, non-American, non-Windows users.

So this year's quick release of the Topre switch Leopold and now this is a good sign they're smart enough not to be complacent. Investing in production in China is a big move for them. I bet it's the start of a bold plan for global domination! (Of high end keyboards, at least.)

Quite right, too. Because Cherry is so firmly at the centre of the mechanical keyboard world that we need a strong challenger more than ever. Or two, or three. (Someone please remind Unicomp we want TKLs and smaller too, nowadays!)

[ne0phyte]

non-Windows users.

Almost EVERY keyboard from EVERY brand out there is made for Windows. Just get blank keycaps if you don't like it.

Also the cost of adding another key that 90% of the users won't use isn't exactly economical.

[matt3o]

ABS lasered is a no go for me especially for topre where it's hard to find replacements, but I'm glad more topre keyboards are coming. the more the better

[dondy]

non-Windows users.

Almost EVERY keyboard from EVERY brand out there is made for Windows. Just get blank keycaps if you don't like it.

Also the cost of adding another key that 90% of the users won't use isn't exactly economical.

alert! someone is wrong on the internet!!

but yeah - most of them are and it almost makes no sense to produce keyboards without a windows key. like 90% of the desktop computers are windows based. additionally on linux/bsd the key can be usefull if applications support it.

if you're a apple slave tho you may pray to your iOverlords to fix the relatively senseless incompatibilities (they switched to x86/arm architecture anyways, no reason to act like they're a specuil kid anymore).

[ne0phyte]

[...] additionally on linux/bsd the key can be usefull if applications support it.

For me the WindowsSuper key is the most important one on Linux. It's my modkey for my window manager and I have many other super+X/shift+super+X shortcuts to launch applications, volume and so on.

I use the alt as super key which is even better on the HHKB because it's 1.5 units big.

[Muirium]

Correct. The HHKB is the UNIX, Linux and Mac keyboard of choice from Topre. (Made for PFU.) So they do basically have one "for the rest of us". An almost ideal one for me, but not all the people who want arrow keys, let alone a number pad.

Any Windows keyboard is just fine on a Mac. No need for extra keys. Windows Logo = Command, Alt = Option and Control is still Control. Mix them around in software as you like. I meant Topre's insistence on Windows logo bubble caps. They're a bit of an outlier in forcing that on their users, up at the high end. That's the kind of thing you expect from low cost keyboards.

Meanwhile, I'm making myself a keyboard with nary a logo on it. Frivolous things, the lot of them.

[cookie]

The ABS Keys and no TKL or 60% options are the reason I wouldn't dig into this product, because I don't like fullsize boards and I absolutely hate shiny keycaps, which is the main problem on abs caps... I can see prices for PBT replacement skyrocket in the near future :/

But if I take the prices from elitekeyboards.com it's better to get a Realforce straight away instead upgrading the Type Heaven.

Realforce: 235$

Type Heaven: 150$
Keycaps: 110$
---------------------------
RF Clone: 260$

Maybe the prices on Keycaps will drop to a level where the Type Heaven + PBT Keycaps wil be cheaper than a Realforce?

[bhtooefr]

That's really the problem that Topre has, differentiation.

Lasered ABS vs. dye-sub PBT is the biggest real difference here! (Well, we'll see how the Chinese build quality is. If they're going to made in China to cut labor costs, that means that there'll probably be a drop in build quality. China can build high quality stuff, but you've gotta pay them, and by the time you've done that, you might as well just use local labor.)

[Findecanor]

It's not like the case on the Realforce is stellar quality anyway (just ABS) ...

IMHO, the case of my Realforce 105UB is sturdier and better built than any other keyboard I have.

I wonder about the case for "Type Heaven".. if it is flimsier than Realforce.
The layout is the same as on a proper Realforce, so I think that you should be able to just upgrade the key set to gain the same level of quality typing experience as on a Realforce (... unless they have cut corners on stabilisers or something equally stupid.) but on the other hand, they can't make it too cheap to buy both or it would cut into Realforce sales.

I am still not convinced that this new keyboard is a good move by Topre. The force curve of the keys is not that special, really.. It is the overall quality of the keyboard that sets it apart from the competition. If you don't have that, then it is not worth even $75 IMHO. (I'm saying $75 and not $50, because I expect them to retain 6-KRO and we don't see that many 6-KRO rubber dome keyboards.)

... Topre's insistence on Windows logo bubble caps.

I think that's just part of Microsoft's Vista-era requirements on keyboard manufacturers for allowing them to have Windows keys. Filco had bubble caps too. With Microsoft pushing Windows 8, I expect Topre to change to flat keycaps with the new Windows logo even for new "proper" Realforce keyboards.

[Muirium]

True. But Filco pops a replacement no-bubble set and a puller in the box, so you can choose. We discussed this annoyance with Realforces here.

I don't think Topre are being penny pinching, I think they're just honestly oblivious to people having any problem with these keys. Hopefully the flat Metro look does indeed come to Topre's Windows keys! The logo doesn't bug me anything like as much as the daft bloody shape. Imagine if there were protruding squares, toruses and pyramids across the entire keyboard: it's a little taste of that!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The force curve of the keys is not that special, really.

Tricky … For me, Realforce variable is the only keyboard I have ever used that comes close to my Goldilocks keyboard. Membrane buckling springs are too stiff (heavy lead-in force) and not remotely tactile. Cherry MX is too light, but the clicky switches can be jarring, and bottoming out is a hard stop. Topre avoid the violent tactile peak of Alps and conventional rubber domes, the hard landing of Cherry, and the near-linear feel of BS. The sound level of Topre is not too soft, or loud, or sharp, or muffled.

That said, I do still find Topre switches to be somewhat mushy, enough that I will always return to microswitches despite all of their failings. I've just discovered the joys of SMK tactile switches, but they suffer from poor off-axis strikes (partial binding) on non-stabilised 1.5 unit switches. (Might just need some lube, I don't know. Never heard any complaints about this before, but SMK switches are pretty rare to begin with.)

White lasering isn't all that great, and while Matias didn't do too bad a job (there's some very evident aliasing in the source graphics), Topre's lasering looks more like Cherry's awful attempts with heaps of cream spooge baked into the keycaps. (One of my Windows keys has a big lump of spooge sticking up out of the logo glyph as a result.)

[002]

They're almost mushy by design. Their marketing is always about "smooth tactile" feeling. The force graph comparisons here illustrate it well: http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/k ... index.html

Alps is all over the shop, lol

[002]

Model number revealed
Looks like they have TYPE HEAVEN keychains too...need one

[cookie]

The more I read about all the Topre love, the mre I actually wan't one... But i'd go for a hhkb or a realforce

[ebonydax]

What this company needs to 'release' is at first a proper distributor for the EU market.

Not even the American market seems covered efficiently.

(efficient = the stock not running out every few days and the prices not being 60%+ higher than Japan/Korea'Asia's)

[Muirium]

That's the thing with Japan. Sometimes companies just don't even think about the outside world. I've been into anime for decades, and getting a hold of the stuff (in competently subtitled, unedited form, especially) has been a barely improving nightmare. The very idea that westerners would want to buy their stuff seemed perfectly absurd to the various studios and publishers for donkeys years.

Keyboards aren't as culturally specific as art, of course, but it doesn't surprise me one bit that Topre may be oblivious to the existence of its foreign fans. Let alone their convenience.

[daedalus]

This is interesting:

The keys on the Type Heaven have a 45g pressure sensitivity and have a life cycle rated for at least 50 million key presses. Topre previously rated its switches at 30 million but will be updating this figure to 50 million for all its keyboards. In other words, it has been underrating its switch life cycle up until now.

Cherry did something like this a few years back. It used to be the case that the linears were rated for 50 million, and the tactile/clicky switches for 20.

[002]

Topre may be oblivious to the existence of its foreign fans. Let alone their convenience.

I dunno, if you include the Korean boards, ANSI Realforces outnumber JIS ones pretty comfortably. I have to wonder if this inefficient stock level thing is just that distributors aren't ordering enough, or Topre can't make em quick enough. We know that they can produce at least 500 a month (well that was a while ago...)

[prices being] 60%+ higher than Japan/Korea'Asia's

How do you get this figure? Last time I checked, Leopold charged a minimum of 330,000 KRW for any Realforce board which is more expensive than EK in nearly all cases (bar the recent Hi Pro release which is the about the same as the Korean price). PC Case Gear sell all their Realforces for under $200.

Maybe you're talking about the keyboards available on Amazon.co.jp - some second hand and older models are pretty cheap these days but most newer boards are around the 20,000-25,000 yen mark

[cookie]

What interests me, if you buy a second hand realforce via amazon.co.jp, will you pay duty on the original price or the price you paid for the keyboard?

BTW. really nice idea with japanese amazon!